The future will pass you it with biomass?

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by Ahmed » 03/04/18, 12:28

Too much pressure on the resource would not only increase costs, in the end, it would remove it. The improvement of the building is one of the keys to energy control, unfortunately, it will be very slow (if however it is possible) in view of the urgency of the situation.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
chatelot16
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6960
Registration: 11/11/07, 17:33
Location: Angouleme
x 264

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by chatelot16 » 03/04/18, 13:13

the small stream make the big rivers

if we refuse all small progress by saying that they are marginal and are not the general solution we will never advance!

a multitude of small progress has a useful result
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by Ahmed » 03/04/18, 14:50

... and small destructions make great deserts! : Wink:
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by moinsdewatt » 03/04/18, 22:08

Ahmed wrote:... and small destructions make great deserts! : Wink:


As you have already been told, the expansion of the French forest is sufficient to allow the increase in the biomass withdrawal.
But you prefer to stay on your so-called certainties.
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by Ahmed » 03/04/18, 22:46

Simply, I do not confuse the stock and the flow ... Several successive deforestation are attested historically and the forest could not be reconstituted only thanks to the use of coal, then later, petroleum; today, we pretend to do the opposite while energy consumption has become incommensurate with these previous causes ... : roll:
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by moinsdewatt » 03/04/18, 23:03

Ahmed wrote:Simply, I do not confuse the stock and the flow ... Several successive deforestation are attested historically and the forest could not be reconstituted only thanks to the use of coal, then later, petroleum; today, we pretend to do the opposite while energy consumption has become incommensurate with these previous causes ... : roll:


Except that it is in no way claimed in France to replace fossils with biomass.

It is just said to use what it takes to not start the stock.

If at the beginning of the 19th century there was so much deforestation, it is precisely because there was not yet any coal, gas, nuclear coal, so everything went there for the iron, bronze, lime, glass and ceramic industries, brickyards, and fuel for stoves and heating.
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12298
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2963

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by Ahmed » 03/04/18, 23:13

Indeed, this is what is said and obviously the role of biomass can only be very partial. However, the risk is great that the share of biomass will be greatly increased beyond its capacities, which nobody seems to really care about, in view of certain delusional projects, like that of Gardanne. I doubt that anyone is able or even willing to have an overview of the possible consequences of these withdrawals as "wood energy" sparkles with the promise of a miraculous solution in the greenish com '...
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by moinsdewatt » 03/04/18, 23:34

Key figures for the wood energy sector

By Enedis partner article 15/03/2018, La Tribune

As the leading source of renewable energy in France, wood energy is experiencing strong development, particularly in the industrial sector. Here are some figures to better understand this phenomenon.

Wood energy refers to the use of the energy potential of wood to produce heat (heating, domestic hot water), electricity or even second generation biofuels. This bioenergy, available in different forms (pellets, logs, etc.), has an essential advantage in ecological terms: its carbon footprint is completely neutral, since a tree consumes as much CO² during its growth as it produces during its combustion.


15,5
French forests cover 15,5 million hectares, which is equivalent to almost a third of the territory's surface. Annual timber harvesting (around 50 million cubic meters) represents just over half of the natural increase in the forest. Enough to offer the wood energy sector a significant potential energy source.

Source: National Office of Forests (ONF).


40
In 2015, primary production of renewable energies in France amounted to 23 MTep *. Wood energy accounts for almost 40% of this total, far ahead of hydraulics (20,5%) or wind (8%). If this share has decreased slightly in 20 years, the sector remains the undisputed leader in the sector.

Source: Ministry of the Environment, Energy and the Sea (2016)


6,9
In one year, bioenergies produced 6,9 TWh ** of electricity. This figure rises to 9 TWh if we take into account the non-renewable part of production. If the segment remains a minority on the electric market (only 1,4% of consumption covered), it recorded constant growth (+ 7,6% in the 3rd quarter 2017).


Source: Panorama renewable electricity (2017).


110
The Multi-year Energy Programming (PPE) is a strategic document which, since 2016, sets the objectives in terms of energy mix. With nearly 600 MW of installed capacity at the end of 2017, wood energy has already reached more than 110% of the national objectives of the sector for 2018 and 76% (in a low scenario) for 2023.

Source: Panorama renewable electricity (2017).


5 972
Apart from domestic heating, wood energy has gradually been extended to collective and industrial heating since the 2010s. Thus, in 2017, 5 wood energy installations with a power greater than 972 KW were listed in France. Their cumulative power represents 50 GW, an increase of 8,1% compared to 12.

Source: Interprofessional Wood Energy Committee (CIBE).


3,5
In 2014, the wood energy market represented 3,5 billion euros. From collection, packaging through transport or operation, the sector brings together no less than 10 direct or indirect jobs and could well generate 000 to 15 more by 000.

Source: Ademe and Directorate General for Energy and Climate.


* Million tonnes of oil equivalent.
** Terawatt hour

https://www.latribune.fr/entreprises-fi ... 71950.html
0 x
moinsdewatt
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 5111
Registration: 28/09/09, 17:35
Location: Isére
x 554

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by moinsdewatt » 03/04/18, 23:38

Ahmed wrote:Indeed, this is what is said and obviously the role of biomass can only be very partial. However, the risk is great that the share of biomass will be greatly increased beyond its capacities, which nobody seems to really care about, in view of certain delusional projects, like that of Gardanne. I doubt that anyone is able or even willing to have an overview of the possible consequences of these withdrawals as "wood energy" sparkles with the promise of a miraculous solution in the greenish com '...


Gardanne is indeed a bad example. It was made to replace a coal power plant unit.

It would surprise me that we redo such a powerful project, I don't want it either.
And I have not heard of such another project elsewhere in France.
0 x
Bardal
I posted 500 messages!
I posted 500 messages!
posts: 509
Registration: 01/07/16, 10:41
Location: 56 and 45
x 198

Re: The future will pass you it with biomass?




by Bardal » 04/04/18, 01:27

Bof, Gardanne is undoubtedly a delusional project, but nothing guarantees us of a new Gardanne ... Some elected officials, or high-level officials, are fond of such projects and generous with public funds from the moment these projects guarantee them some appearances in the media. There are even specialists in the matter, remember some photovoltaic road, or the electric vehicles of Deux-Sèvres ...

Let us also be wary of a little too valiant optimism in the face of the ill-supported statements of the various speakers, no doubt largely overdetermined, and limited, by the functions they exercise; contrary to what is said here and there, the product of the French forest would be exploited to more than 75%, and not 50, and it is not certain that the remaining 25% will one day be exploited in full; perhaps it is also not desirable. We must not confuse the wood sold, and the wood actually used as combustible biomass ...

Read here on these questions http://www.lutopik.com/Lutopik_8web.pdf

Perhaps it would be wise to reserve this use of wood energy for local uses - domestic consumption, heating network of modest size ... - rather than being systematically included in a centralized commercial and industrial circuit; while preserving the "part of the soil" essential for the regeneration of forest soils. Certainly this would not do the business of the traders and industrialists mentioned above, it would also have the second advantage of diluting the known drawbacks of biomass incineration ("wood" heating is, by far, the first microphone transmitter. -particles and NOX, well before diesel if decried) and the constraints of its transport ...

It would undoubtedly be less publicized, and moreover less visible, but undoubtedly more effective (there are nearly 20 million buildings heated with hydrocarbons, which only ask to be "substituted"; there will be some besides not for everyone, wood) than to produce - badly - electricity with wood from Canada or Brazil ...
1 x

Back to "hydraulic, wind, geothermal, marine energy, biogas ..."

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 224 guests