gravity storage

[skin]

in this discussion on the use of a mass (concrete, stone or metal) compared to a body of water (dam) the formulation E = mgh remains identical so the stored and restored energy remains identical as well
the choice of the technology depends on the presence of water in quantity, the difference between high and low, the desired storage capacity and especially the cycle (recharge / discharge) desired
note: the daily cycle is the most profitable investment and is particularly suitable for nuclear or solar power plants
wind energy requires too much storage to be profitable (investment)

[raymon]

@gaston
Okay so is 27wh or 27kwh for a ton raised from 10m? Actually 27 wh to lift a ton seemed to me not much.

[skin]

at raymon
the example of the dam on the Durance is a good subject for discussion: it has a huge storage capacity (snowmelt) but no lower basin, moreover it ensures a minimum flow for the Durance and feeds in France. water the valley crops
Difficult to repel water for another use (conflicts with farmers and various ecologists)
in a hydro-electric dam, a few meters of water thickness (on the surface) allows the electric generation then the height of fall decreases rapidly and the yield also

[raymon]

the example of the dam on the Durance is a good subject for discussion: it has a huge storage capacity (snowmelt) but no lower basin, moreover it ensures a minimum flow for the Durance and feeds in France. water the valley crops

EDF takes between 80 and 90% of the water in the Durance, which would be illegal today. Normally it should only take 40%. Regarding the lower basin, the letangnouveau association had made a proposal for a step on the Durance by making a basin in the pond of Berre.
http://www.letangnouveau.org/durancepropositions.html

[skin]

@ raymon, thanks for the interesting link
I am surprised by the lack of interest of the government and EDF-AREVA
for this multi-storey STEP project (ponçon - pond of Berre)
however, this STEP solution is ideal for "smoothing" electro-nuclear production and therefore does not vary too much the production of nuclear power plants (fatigue and cracks in the tanks as in Belgium)

[Gaston]

@gaston
Okay so is 27wh or 27kwh for a ton raised from 10m? Actually 27 wh to lift a ton seemed to me not much.

This is 27Wh.

If 27kWh was needed to mount a ton of 1m, a Clio of 1000kg going up to 2000m would consume 5400kWh just to gain altitude, more than 540 liters of fuel (with an engine that would 100%)

A Zoe of 1500 kg with a battery of 22kWh could only mount 54 cm ...

To compare, 1kWh is about 1200 kg at the top of the Eiffel Tower ...

[raymon]

however, this STEP solution is ideal for "smoothing" electro-nuclear production and therefore does not vary too much the production of nuclear power plants (fatigue and cracks in the tanks as in Belgium)

I would say rather practical for a rapid development of ENR and a quick shutdown of nuclear!

This is 27Wh.

So would not it be more practical to use this kind of solution rather than batteries for small units like houses or residential areas in the course of a massive development of ENR.

[izentrop]

Flux batteries also have a future in this field https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Batterie_ ... m#Principe
http://lenergeek.com/2014/06/11/la-batt ... mittentes/

All storage technologies: http://www.ifpenergiesnouvelles.fr/Espa ... e-maturite

[phil53]

I'm over the topic but go see this article

http://www.ifpenergiesnouvelles.fr/Espa ... e-maturite

There is among others the storage of thermal energy in the summer for the winter.
There are several functional units.
Very interesting and certainly an interesting possibility to reduce our impact on the environment

[dirk pitt]

One question: in cities do elevators produce electricity on the way down? trains do it and for a long time.

Another: what mass operates the gravity lamp? because to read it takes at least 1 watt ?, during 1 / 2 h it would 1800 Joules, with 1kg (10N) it would need a height of 1800 / 10 = 180mètres?

for lifts, only the energy of the mass of the occupants of the cabin is recovered because the cabin is balanced by a counterweight of identical mass. thus, when the elevator goes up or down empty, it consumes only enough to overcome friction.

for the gravity light, the mass to put in the bag which serves weight is about 12kg and according to the desired luminous power (adjustable), this mass descends of 2m (it is the height that goes well to reassemble it easily) in about 10 to 20mn
12kg on 2m give about 250J is 0.07Wh
if the mass goes down in 10mn, we have a power of illumination (LED) of 0.4W it is weak but it lights up correctly