Black Series 300 600 and 600S from Prevent

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Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 22/10/12, 21:43

The measurement was taken between the turbine and the BR3, windmaster connected and in production. The units are right on the image.
10 V / Tension
Period 10 ms / tile


There is a kind of saturation but due to what?

Today without wind I measured with the ladle for 1.7m / s, 25V, 1 revolution / s (hard to estimate) and period of 100 ms is 10 Hz.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 23/10/12, 01:52

Ruthenian wrote:The measurement was taken between the turbine and the BR3, windmaster connected and in production. The units are right on the image.
10 V / Tension
Period 10 ms / tile


There is a kind of saturation but due to what?

Today without wind I measured with the ladle for 1.7m / s, 25V, 1 revolution / s (hard to estimate) and period of 100 ms is 10 Hz.

the right side of the photo is not clear on the units.

The period makes 5 tiles, distance between 2 equivalent points of the curve, as downhill crossing with the horizontal value zero in the middle, so the period at 10 ms / tile is 50ms is 20Hz and probably the rotation speed 5 times less at 4 Hertz, because 1 hertz allows time to count visually the turns, (with a pale colored white) with a chrono, as for the pulsations of our heart.

The saturation voltage is 4 tiles approximately at 10 V / tile voltage which gives 40V and without saturating, sawtooth, 50V peak, so sinusoid 50V / rac2 = 35Vefficient and sawtooth if perfect, 50V / 2 = 25V

Finally the saturation, can be that of the scope amplifier for the amplitudes beyond its display (protections by diodes ???)
To be tested by changing the Voltage 10 V / tile less sensitive as 20V / tile or 50V / tile if the oscilloscope tolerates in input voltages as high as that.
It may be the protection does not enter the scope against excessive voltages so see and read its documentation.

It can be the soft iron of alternator windings that saturate with strong current ????

It can be the rectifier which closes the voltage as soon as the voltage reaches the rectified voltage, at the crossing of the sinusoidal shifted 120 ° of the 3 voltages of the three-phase, following the strong current demanded at this voltage, which closes, then the voltage, diminished Ohm RI voltage in the windings.
It is very likely this effect if the requested current is quite strong, explanation to be tested by measuring for different currents, from low to high, and comparing to the measured value of the rectified voltage, equal to that which clinks minus 0,7V diodes.

The voltage of 50V and 20 Hertz, charging not very high, corresponds to 24Hertz for the nominal V of 48V of the Black 600 given by the forum German,
So there should not be too many swirls?
The DC current was by how much A, 1, 2 to 3 A for a power of 50, 100 to 150W ???
With a wind near 4m / s loosely double that at 1,7m / s, with 25V corresponding to the start of production indicated by the forums at 1,6m / s and Vnominal / 2 = 48V / 2?

The current before rectifier on each phase will be like the ends of sinusoid, which lack in tension.
See three-phase on wikipedia.

The 5 report can be checked and measured with very slow rotation at low wind, at 0,5tour per second or less and looking at the oscillo period like 2,5 hertz, 5 times faster.

A piezo loudspeaker microphone or pad, taking vibration from the wind turbine's mast, will give the rotational speed mixed with other higher frequency vibrations.

Clear measurements, U, I, continuously, f, alternating, V of the wind, are to be made for different resistive loads R, without the windmaster, which decides him of R according to the pleasure of his program.

The temperature of the heater serving as resistance will give the power of the wind turbine, calibrating it before, with more care than Naudin and others, like Vialle.
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Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 23/10/12, 13:38

After the period the autan, after one month of operation look at the blades part back (nothing on the front part):

Image

Winding resistance:
On two son I find 5 Ohms and other 8 Ohms!
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 23/10/12, 14:24

Ruthenian wrote:After the period the autan, after one month of operation look at the blades part back (nothing on the front part):


Nice photo of the tourbillons demonstration:

the wind must be full of fine dust, like sand washed away in the surroundings, not good for the lungs too.

The wind turbines are sandblasted, in places full of swirls that take off and hit the dust (without boundary layer then), blade tips, near the hub and rear extrados of the blades.

Winding resistance:
On two son I find 5 Ohms and other 8 Ohms!


It is necessary to correctly measure the three-phase 3 or 4 triangle or star, neutral, phase:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Courant_triphas%C3%A9
http://fr.wikiversity.org/wiki/Redresse ... phas%C3%A9


I keep the 4 5 ohms, half of 8.

After the star rectifier (without the neutral used), it is the double 8 Ohms approximately, which is good, with 2 coils in series giving the current in the diodes and the rectified load.

normally we have to measure the R between all pairs of wires possible 2 to 2 !!!
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Combinaiso ... atiques%29
be 6 pairs !!
To measure on 4 son, all, 3 to 4 to 5 Ohms, and 3 to 8 ohms, to specify better.

This is in agreement with the 0,5 Ohms measured on the forum for Vnominal = 12v instead of V = 48V (factor 4x4 = 16 times 0,5 Ohms), the forum not stating whether it was stole or triangle.
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Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 23/10/12, 21:12

3 wires out of the turbine and I note well an imbalance between 1 measurement and the other 2. Only 3 combinations in this case present.

Question stupid, concerning the result of vortices, why on the back faces and not on front faces. Due to the depression?
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/10/12, 01:38

Ruthenian wrote:3 wires out of the turbine and I note well an imbalance between 1 measurement and the other 2. Only 3 combinations in this case present.

[/ quote
Weird and disturbing !!!

The 3 coils must be identical equivalents !!
Or is there a basic cabling error ??
one of the coils has 2 times less turns or son rac2 times bigger.

Measure the 3 voltages on each coil during operation and the same wind, to know if they are identical and out of phase with 120 ° !!!
Check that the wires are not connected to anything in the resistance measurement.


Question stupid, concerning the result of vortices, why on the back faces and not on front faces. Due to the depression?


The whirlwinds come off behind and sometimes come back banging violently against the wing's surface by breaking the normal laminar air boundary layer (much like a crashing tornado).
In front of the laminar boundary layer protects up to the formation behind the vortices that throw the sand behind by centrifugal force like in a vacuum tornado.

see these photos and videos:
http://inter.action.free.fr/labo-aero/a ... tance.html
http://www.onera.fr/conferences/decolle ... t-3d-2.pdf
http://www.onera.fr/conferences/decolle ... t-3d-4.pdf
http://wwwdfr.ensta.fr/Cours/docs/A3-1/ ... 040913.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_%28physics%29

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tra%C3%AEn%C3%A9e

Chaos is not simple.
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Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 24/10/12, 07:22

OK, thanks.

Now it is true that when I mounted the machine, the blades at one time had touched sand and I noticed that the slight treatment on it (kind of black paint hue) was gone. I had it re-painted and slightly varnished. The underside was about that color.

Dédéleco, I come back to your first message on this post of "18 Mar 2012 03:18 pm".
Obviously you had just seen on the yield of the machine (to 300 W to 18% of Betz) under swirls.
It runs very well and almost all the time but the performance is not there.
I am waiting for an episode of Tramontane (early sector) to communicate the results and my impressions. With, I hope a lot less whirlwinds.

In the early evening, 1 to 2 hours after sunset, I noticed that the wind was much more constant and laminar. No doubt due to the weakening of the "thermal wind" effect.
It is, also, much more laminar at low speed.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/10/12, 10:12

Ruthenian wrote:OK, thanks.

Now it is true that when I mounted the machine, the blades at one time had touched sand and I noticed that the slight treatment on it (kind of black paint hue) was gone. I had it re-painted and slightly varnished. The underside was about that color.

Dédéleco, I come back to your first message on this post of "18 Mar 2012 03:18 pm".
Obviously you had just seen on the yield of the machine (to 300 W to 18% of Betz) under swirls.

It was based on the indications of the links that I had put.



It runs very well and almost all the time but the performance is not there.


It is necessary to measure the speed of rotation, and that of the wind at the same time, because with swirls the speed of rotation, decreases, with in addition the risk that the windmaster, set for without swirls asks too much, because the settings mppt U fct of I , change completely between whirlpools and whirlpools, I much weaker, with blades without lift.

This is why we must measure on resistive stable load, to see clearly and know how a mppt should work, following the eddies, that it must detect, intelligently.


I am waiting for an episode of Tramontane (early sector) to communicate the results and my impressions. With, I hope a lot less whirlwinds.

In the early evening, 1 to 2 hours after sunset, I noticed that the wind was much more constant and laminar. No doubt due to the weakening of the "thermal wind" effect.
It is, also, much more laminar at low speed.


Certain that in the evening, with the earth less hot, the ascendances in whirlpools, micro-tornadoes, stop, and no longer create whirlpools in the wind became more regular.
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Ruthenian
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by Ruthenian » 24/10/12, 21:44

Very hard to take measurements, the Autan has started again.
I measured at a moment of flat calm, a period of 100ms for 1 turn per second at about 1.7 m / s. To confirm.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 24/10/12, 22:30

Ruthenian wrote:Very hard to take measurements, the Autan has started again.
I measured at a moment of flat calm, a period of 100ms for 1 turn per second at about 1.7 m / s. To confirm.


If true, this makes 10Hertz for 1tour / s, an 10 factor instead of 5 shown on the forum German, surprising.

A period is the same return of the sinusoid in the same direction, the second crossing of zero, not the first half period.
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