Sale of a microcentrale

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Re: Sale of a microcentrale




by Remundo » 28/05/09, 13:21

raymon wrote:I'm a little disgusted, I went today to visit a hydro power plant for sale 58kw and apparently he has trouble selling it and if he sells it is very likely that he sells to people who destroy the power plant because he prefers to make a house there! this plant produces about 240 000kw hours a year !!
Unfortunately it's a bit expensive for me: 250 000 euros the central, apart from 60 m2 plus dependence.
The kwh is paid on average 6 cents far from 50 cents for photovoltaic roofs !!
Crazy world !!

Hello Raymon, it's Remundo :P

in which region is this plant located?

Thank you and @ +
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by Christophe » 28/05/09, 13:44

Do not prevent if he had a economic and moral equality in the feed-in tariffs on green kWh, this mill would pay for itself in 2 years! In reality it will be in 20 years ....

Well yes what: explain to me FOR WHAT ECOLOGICAL REASON, a solar PV kWh should be paid 10 times more expensive than another kWh which emits just as little CO2 ????

The hydraulic power station is even more durable than the PV since its lifespan is much less limited in time ...

Okay now I'm quitting! :x
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Re: Sale of a central microphone




by Woodcutter » 28/05/09, 15:34

bobono wrote:[...] Simple answer. [...]
simpleste ... (twice in two posts)
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by raymon » 28/05/09, 15:45

This powerhouse is on a watering canal near cavaillon (white horse) attention 2 winter stop and there is 2 one 58kw installations and one 40 kw when the flow is lower or failure. Damn I forgot the commission. I can send you this by email.
in the classifieds of the alarm clock of the mills:
http://www.moulinaeau.org/
By the way, do you know who made the first hybrid car:
http://www.motorlegend.com/video-voitur ... 0/527.html

But no we do not walk on the head!
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by Woodcutter » 28/05/09, 15:46

Christophe wrote:[...] Well yes what: explain to me FOR WHAT ECOLOGICAL REASON, a solar PV kWh should be paid 10 times more expensive than another kWh which emits just as little CO2 ???? [...]
The reason (and not the justification, nuance ...) seems to me simple and known to all: the deployment of PV technology with the (realistic?) Goal of making it more accessible by mass effect.


For the mill, a small downside to the general joy:
- a hydro plant requires regular maintenance of the mechanical parts, which can be far from negligible depending on the obsolescence of the equipment,
- a hydroelectric plant requires maintenance, certainly quite a long time away, of its "civil engineering & canal" parts which can be horribly expensive,
- a hydro plant has an operating license granted for a limited period. Its renewal is subject to the realization of an impact study which may be quite expensive and whose conclusions may lead to a decrease in production to limit the influence on the watercourse (if we say green, obviously !),
- it is possible that the hydrological regime of watercourses, especially in the Mediterranean region, will be different in the years to come compared to the statistical reference data, so the production may very well not be that expected.

That being said, and with the greatest possible respect for the aquatic environment, it is one of the modes of RE production that I prefer.
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by raymon » 28/05/09, 18:55

The durance that feeds my mill and that of the seller comes from the Alps. 90% of the water in the Durance is turbined by EDF from the Ponçon greenhouse dam (the largest artificial lake in France I believe) in a series of ten hydraulic power stations the rest is in the major bed for about 10m3 second all year round and is also used for these watering channels edf is obliged to supply the farmers with water. So no problem except 2 winter months without water for maintenance. Contrary to popular belief, we are not about to run out of water in Provence.

In this case it is a question of turbinating in a channel where there is no fish (grid).
Run-of-river hydraulics is, I think, perhaps the cleanest mode of energy production (sorry the least dirty), the most predictable and the least expensive in terms of investment.
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by raymon » 28/05/09, 18:58

I forgot my mill is founded in title like many others in France (existed before the revolution of 1789) so my right to water is inalienable and imprescriptible.
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by Christophe » 28/05/09, 23:02

Woodcutter wrote:The reason (and not the justification, nuance ...) seems to me simple and known to all: the deployment of PV technology with the (realistic?) Goal of make it more accessible by mass effect.


Hey Lumberjack do you really believe what you're saying? In order to deploy a technology and make it accessible to the masses, is it more judicious to subsidize the sale of a technology (downstream) or its research and development (upstream) in order to actually lower the prices and not just pretend they are falling for a minority who can afford to advance the money ??

By subsidizing the sale, it would not be the opposite effect which occurs by chance (maintains high prices, false or no competition, absolute control of the boom in the market ...)?

The mass has no influence on the prices, the proof, here is what I wrote yesterday on this subject: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fabricatio ... t7670.html

https://www.econologie.com/fichiers/partager/1243413275XWeS2M.pdf

As you will see it is an old laptop, the doc dates from 1994 but the power and technology (other than the pc) are still relevant!

Notice the price of the solar panel: $ 130 for 10W ... roughly the current price! After we dare to tell us that the prices of solar are fixed in relation to a law of supply and demand ...

The demand for PV solar panels in 1994 was obviously the same as in 2009 ... (ironic eh!)


Let it be clear: I am not AGAINST PV, I am AGAINST EXPENSIVE PV which is only profitable through subsidies ...
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by Woodcutter » 28/05/09, 23:23

Christophe wrote:[...] In order to deploy a technology and make it accessible to the mass, is it more judicious to subsidize the sale of a technology (downstream) or its research and development (upstream) in order to actually lower the prices and not just pretend that they are falling for a minority who can afford to advance the money ?? [...]
Judicious or not, I don't know, but it seems to me that this is what has been put forward ...

Christophe wrote:[...] The mass has no influence on the prices, the proof, here is what I wrote yesterday on this subject: [...]
For the price, you wouldn't have forgotten the inflation sometimes?
$ 130, in 1994, allowed us to buy a lot more things than now ...


Christophe wrote:[...] That it is clear: I am not AGAINST the PV, I am AGAINST an EXPENSIVE PV which is profitable only via subsidies ...
And what is your solution?
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by Woodcutter » 28/05/09, 23:28

raymon wrote:[...] Contrary to the received ideas one is not close to lack of water in Provence.
That's what you think !
I hope the future will prove you are right, but unfortunately I am almost certain that it will not be ... :?

raymon wrote:In this case it is a question of turbinating in a channel where there is no fish (grid).
Run-of-river hydraulics is, I think, perhaps the cleanest mode of energy production (sorry the least dirty), the most predictable and the least expensive in terms of investment.
I agree, and indeed, in a case like this, it changes the game a bit.

In addition, with a water right based on title, it is all good for those who benefit from it.
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