Problem water supply for turbine Pelton hydro electricity

[chatelot16]

the ideal speed of rotation of a peleton is simple, it is half the speed of the jet of water

the jet turns half in the spoon: if the spoon advances at a speed of half of the throw the jet is found after half a turn at almost zero speed: therefore without kinetic energy: conclusion everything was given to the turbine hang this rebound in the spoon

calculation of the speed of the jet:

potential energy of a quantity of water coming down from the mountain
E = mg H
kinetic energy of the jet
E = 1 / 2 m V ^ 2

if the nozzle was perfect there would be no energy loss
mg H = 1 / 2 m V ^ 2
V ^ 2 = mg H 2 / m = 2 rho mg H

V = root (2 g H)

g = gravity = 9.81 N / kg
H = 95m (or 180m)

V = root (2 9.81 95) = root 1863,9 = 43,17m / s

to have the speed divide by circumference of the wheel
43,17m / s / 0.28m / pi = 49,0 r / s
x 60 = 2944 rpm
it is the empty speed: the max yield is at half speed so 1500 rpm

the final solution will be to put an alternator 1500tr / minute to avoid any transmission!

if it's to make 24 go 180m it will have to run faster, and it does not matter if it's more than 50 hz

the yield curve makes a hump very half round: it is not very serious to depart from it

[bernardd]

and the one towards the generator

http://cgi.ebay.fr/eolienne-windturbine ... 1528wt_754

I did not find the curve of this generator, but 1500rpm as indicated by dedeleco, it is a "natural" speed for a generator, so you would really be better off putting it in direct drive without a belt, just a component shock absorber, and more.

For example, these curves:
http://www.missouriwindandsolar.com/Sup ... 2_PMA.html

[chatelot16]

the power curve supplied by a peleton is a simple parabola giving zero to vitessa maxi, zero to speed zero, and maxi to V / 2

suddenly the maxi is pretty rounded and it's pretty good from V / 3 to 2V / 3

[Gilles 2B]

Hi,

To answer all your questions and especially the important details that you give me, I will start with the essential, namely the nozzle, so I ordered a nozzle at the guy who sold me the wheel PELTON like that I will already fix an important problem.

Then to calculate the necessary speed I took the speed of rotation measured on the empty pelton and taking a good margin, I calculated that the generator had to turn at half the speed of the pelton to be within the range of use (> 24 volts) and be able to recharge my batteries.

So I made a pulley half the diameter of the generator and I thought the belt drive would be very suitable.

I do not see how to make a training light enough and reliable that can allow me to divide the speed by two, and that does not eat half the available torque ....

Any suggestion is welcome !!!!

See you soon



Gilles

[chatelot16]

do not break your head with the nozzle ...

a scrap pipe, split cone-shaped, and resold would do the job

what is your empty speed?

and also what is the supply pressure, when the turbine is spinning?

if you have a much lower empty speed than the 3000t I calculated, it is a sign of a pressure drop in the pipe that gives a much lower pressure than the theoretical 9.5 bar

do not forget that the nozzle even a beautiful cone gives a speed 0.9 or 0.8 fopis the theoretical speed only

does not control a fixed nozzle: it is necessary to do like the true peleton of the edf a nozzle with conical needle inside, allowing to change the power while keeping the same efficiency of the turbine

[bernardd]

But did you receive a document giving the power / speed curve for your generator?

Because you started from the idle speed to calculate a division by 2 of speed, while the load might be enough to lower the speed.

Normally, the ideal speeds of wind turbine generators is more than 1000t / min, which is also the big problem of wind turbines.

And your belt loses a lot of energy.

But I have another question: because your turbine can run when you want, do you really need to go through the batteries? It's also a big loss, and it's better if you can avoid it.

And the last question: what is the distance between the turbine and the house / the use of electricity?

[Alain G]

Gilles

Have you measured the amperage available during your tests?


What rotation speed is given to you to get the generator 1100 watts?


Test the turbine coupled directly to the generator and resume the reading of the amperage!

[Gilles 2B]

Good then,

No-load rotation speed> 3200 rpm,

Speed ​​required for voltage greater than 24 volts 1500 rpm

I did not measure the amperage because I do not know how to do it

And I would like to have a nozzle with a conical needle inside but I do not already know what it looks like, so to know where I will find a suitable for my installation, it will not be easy!

The turbine once installed will be less than 3 meters of batteries and I am forced to go through the batteries because I have an installation with inverters that give me 220 which allows me to have a switchgear and installation while is normal in the house.

So I have to recharge my batteries in winter at least at night or when I have several days of bad weather, as at this moment ....

See you

[Forhorse]

Do not break your head with a demultiplication between the turbine and the generator.
If the generator goes out a much higher tension it does not matter, on the contrary.
A small PWM controller will perfectly match the impedance to take advantage of this difference in voltage to conserve the power available to charge the battery.
On the contrary, like that even if the turbine drops a little in regime you will still have a current exploitable output.

[bernardd]

Good then,

No-load rotation speed> 3200 rpm,

Speed ​​required for voltage greater than 24 volts 1500 rpm

I did not measure the amperage because I do not know how to do it

It is actually necessary to measure the power, because it is also equivalent to the load that will brake the turbine, with some more losses in the transmission.

Side electric, you need a conventional voltmeter, or even more practical a voltmeter with amperemeter clamp.
(this genre https://www.econologie.com/shop/pince-am ... p-149.html)

In this case, it certainly has a position W for watt, ie power: you put the clamp (which opens) around one of the cables coming out of the generator, and the measuring pins on the terminals to measure the voltage at the same time time.

You can also measure voltage and current / amperage separately to get an idea too, knowing that power is the product of current voltage.

How did you measure the speed? If you could measure the speed of rotation at the same time, you will have all the elements to think about :-)
I just saw that Christopje has 1 too: it is well supplied :-)
https://www.econologie.com/shop/tachymet ... p-348.html

The turbine once installed will be less than 3 meters of batteries and I am forced to go through the batteries because I have an installation with inverters that give me 220 which allows me to have a switchgear and installation while is normal in the house.

ok, you need the shortest possible cables in 24V, because 1000W under 24V is a current of 1000W / 24V = 41A. It takes big cables to avoid losses.

In any case, given the empty speed, I think you can try to put the generator directly on the axis of the turbine. with a division by 2 of speed, you really risk being below 1500t / min.

I do not know the quality of the generator and the turbine, nor the bearings between the 2, but at 1500t / mn, it may be necessary to check the balancing in rotation, as for the wheels of car. But it will be better than the belt :-)


At least you have water :-)