Disinformation: renewables are bankruptcy EDF?

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by sen-no-sen » 10/02/17, 22:05

Meszigues3 wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:It is for this reason that France is probably not going out of nuclear power.
The Germans make up for their exit from nuclear power with coal, which makes a very credible mix, renewable energy boosting coal!
A production solely focused on wind and solar will not be very acceptable, especially when you know that it takes between 5000/8000 wind turbines (1MW, 80m high!) To replace a nuclear power plant ...
The "least worst" of the solutions would be a mix of biomass / solar / wind and generation 4 nuclear power (energy amplifier) in a context of strong decrease.

Okay, except:
"It takes between 5000/8000 wind turbines (1MW, 80m high!) To replace a nuclear power plant ..."
You forgot the back-up.


Obviously, STEP that go with ... not sure that the mountain people appreciate ...
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by Meszigues3 » 10/02/17, 22:15

sen-no-sen wrote:Obviously, STEP that go with ... not sure that the mountain people appreciate ...

STEP is less than 5 GW, that is to say nothing.

In addition, STEP is included in hydraulic production, at least for Grandmaison (the others also probably), the most powerful STEP.

STEPs are therefore used to manage variations (manage production peaks and not deficits).
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by sen-no-sen » 10/02/17, 23:23

Meszigues3 wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:Obviously, STEP that go with ... not sure that the mountain people appreciate ...

STEP is less than 5 GW, that is to say nothing.

In addition, STEP is included in hydraulic production, at least for Grandmaison (the others also probably), the most powerful STEP.

STEPs are therefore used to manage variations (manage production peaks and not deficits).


Yes that is not much and the only truly renewable solution (in a 100% renewable option) would require the construction of a large number of WWTPs for an astronomical cost and a very significant environmental impact.
We can therefore see that renewables are far from being as virtuous as some people think, especially in a context of sustained growth.
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by Meszigues3 » 11/02/17, 00:10

sen-no-sen wrote:Yes that is not much and the only truly renewable solution (in a 100% renewable option) would require the construction of a large number of WWTPs for an astronomical cost and a very significant environmental impact.
We can therefore see that renewables are far from being as virtuous as some people think, especially in a context of sustained growth.

Exactly.

Sufficient or not you have to be aware that wind and solar need storage and back-up, which means heavy investments which are to be counted in the costs of these RES.

Technically, this storage or back-up can be what we want (or can), but it must be attributed financially to RES.

It is therefore dishonest to say "Marine wind costs around € 200 / MWh", when other investments must be added.
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by Christophe » 11/02/17, 02:10

Meszigues3 wrote:It is therefore dishonest to say "Marine wind costs around € 200 / MWh", when other investments must be added.


Obviously with the nuclear one does not count the "other investments" ... in particular the wars for Uranium ... A little too easy not?
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by Meszigues3 » 11/02/17, 08:58

Christophe wrote:
Meszigues3 wrote:It is therefore dishonest to say "Marine wind costs around € 200 / MWh", when other investments must be added.

Obviously with the nuclear one does not count the "other investments" ... in particular the wars for Uranium ... A little too easy not?
I'm absolutely not looking for ease.

In any investment, the most basic honesty is to count all the related investments (this is BA BA) and also the externalities, which is often less easy.

If there are any costs associated with the supply of uranium, clearly related to uranium, then of course you have to count them.
If the replacement of nuclear by coal in the German model is the cause of lung diseases as it is claimed, then we must quantify the costs and attribute it correctly to the cause.

"A little too easy, right?" " I do not understand this remark; yes, it's easy to integrate everything if you're honest, but not too easy.
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by sen-no-sen » 11/02/17, 10:15

One thing must be understood: all the means of energy production (including renewable) lead to bankruptcy when they are deployed within a policy of seeking exponential growth.
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by moinsdewatt » 11/02/17, 12:43

Christophe wrote:
Obviously with the nuclear one does not count the "other investments" ... in particular the wars for Uranium ... A little too easy not?


Could you quote me a uranium war in these days? : roll:
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by sen-no-sen » 11/02/17, 13:15

moinsdewatt wrote:
Christophe wrote:
Obviously with the nuclear one does not count the "other investments" ... in particular the wars for Uranium ... A little too easy not?


Could you quote me a uranium war in these days? : roll:


Let's say that the instability of certain countries (at random Niger ...) somewhat benefits the French state and its multinationals ... : roll:
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Re: Disinformation: renewable energies bankrupt EDF?




by moinsdewatt » 11/02/17, 13:26

sen-no-sen wrote:
Let's say that the instability of certain countries (at random Niger ...) somewhat benefits the French state and its multinationals ... : roll:


Bad.
Uranium from Niger represents between a half to a billion euros of imports from France, and we could see elsewhere like Canada, Kazakhstan and Australia. Besides, we are already doing it. : Idea:

And in any case, Uranium from Niger will also go to China, which competes with France in Niger.

Where does natural uranium imported into France come from?

May 12, 2014 connanceesenergies.org

France needs nearly 9 tonnes of natural uranium per year to manufacture the fuel for its fleet of 900 nuclear reactors (58). All of this uranium is imported: the EDF operator purchases the final fuel from Areva, which secures its upstream supply by purchasing uranium from different geographic areas. Among those mainly Niger, Canada, Australia and Kazakhstan.

The exact distribution of French imports is however not communicated by EDF and Areva who relay fairly global documents on the origin of these imports. Globally, Areva and the Kazakh company KazAtomProm are the two main producers of uranium, ahead of the Canadian Cameco. The French group mainly extracts uranium from the Arlit and Akouta mines in Niger and from Tortkuduk in Kazakshtan. It also produces ore in Canada.

Almost two-thirds of world uranium production comes from mines in Kazakhstan (36,5%), Canada (15%) and Australia (12%) according to the latest data from the World Nuclear Association (WNA) (2) relating to 2012. This is followed by Niger, Namibia, Russia and Uzbekistan.

Taking into account the price of natural uranium on the markets, the amount of French imports of uranium can be estimated between 500 million and one billion euros per year. Note that the cost of nuclear fuel ultimately amounts to only 5% on average of the final price per kWh from nuclear power plants.

http://www.connaissancedesenergies.org/ ... nce-140512
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