Wind energy in France and Germany: key figures

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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 09/09/08, 11:26

Christophe wrote:[...]
12) Wind energy is a decentralized energy that generates activity in rural regions. This is an economic opportunity for many small and medium-sized municipalities.


False if the production is local, there is nothing about the use. The wind farms are connected on the HT lines ... and the transport is therefore managed by the RTE. Proximity to the network is also a criterion for the feasibility of a park.[...]
I disagree with you less ...
See moreover arguments from the FED quite recently, on the additional costs generated by line extensions.
And besides, we can be a small town, in a windy region AND not too far from a line ...
And they talk about activity, not consumption.

So as we say to the iouesses: Objection your honor !
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by C moa » 09/09/08, 11:27

Christophe wrote:
4) The wind resource is in line with our electricity consumption with more wind in winter when the consumption is the most important and when the production of electricity costs the most expensive and emits the most greenhouse gases.

It is so true that when the wind blows too hard, they cannot produce.
10) There will be no unpleasant surprises with the cost price of wind power : no fuel costs, no toxic waste to manage, no complex dismantling, no major risks.


It is to forget that the survival wind power in France is linked to subsidies!!! Without subsidy on each nuclear kWh by French wind power !! So that's half-lying this point: no unpleasant surprise may be but a cost largely underestimated for the consumer today. We play on words!

It is especially to forget that it is not the groundhog which varnishes the copper wire of the winding of the generator. And the 300 tonnes of concrete, after 25 years ?? What do we do with it ?? Well 300 tonnes we know how to backfill with but 1000 x 300 tonnes ....

Who is ready to pay this in France? Huh? Who? Less than what is already produced by wind kWh!
This is where it is interesting, if the product is local, why they do not offer locals to buy their juice directly ?? We can now buy elsewhere than at EDF !!!

12) Wind energy is a decentralized energy that generates activity in rural regions. This is an economic opportunity for many small and medium-sized municipalities.


False if the production is local, there is nothing about the use. The wind farms are connected on the HT lines ... and the transport is therefore managed by the RTE. Proximity to the network is also a criterion for the feasibility of a park.

We must damn consume in Normandy and Brittany compared to other regions because they want to put them all there.

16) A wind farm is a completely reversible installation. At the end of the 20 to 25 years of life of a wind farm, the site can fully return to its initial use (most often agricultural).


25 years is what they call sustainable development? HM hm...

20) Wind energy perfectly meets the definition of sustainable development: "development that meets the needs of present generations without compromising the capacity of future generations". Wind turbines can be the beacons of this sustainable development.


The generations? No gentleman at 20 to 25 years of life, at best, it is THE future generation! : Cheesy:

Not better !!
But I think that in 25 years, when the facilities are renewed, many will not be renewed for lack of subsidy.
It's like CAP subsidies, at some point it will have to stop.
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by Rulian » 09/09/08, 13:37

C moa wrote:In fact what bothers me is that we don't force them to help other sectors. The nuke helps the wind, the wind should do research in other directions (thermosolar, hydroelectric ...).


The nuke helps the wind and the wind is stingy ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
It takes quite a bit C moa, but I rarely read such stupid things !!! The nuke helps the wind !! LOL. And you know what ? Renault is also subsidizing bikes and Monsanto has started helping organic farmers !! LOL

Anyway I stop there, it goes in circles and it peaks badly and anything. We are wasting our time.

Go and pay a shack at Tricastin, and have fun.
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by Woodcutter » 09/09/08, 13:46

C moa wrote:[...] And the 300 tonnes of concrete, after 25 years ?? What do we do with it ?? Well 300 tonnes we know how to backfill with but 1000 x 300 tonnes ....
And why would we take them off? In 25 years, the traces of installations will be erased and these blocks will be in balance with the local vegetation ...
Removing them means: again tracks for trucks, again machines, again earthworks, even more important than for the installation probably ...
Given that concrete is "bio-degradable" in the long term (120,? 150? 200 years?) I frankly do not see the point of such interventions ...
Possibly hide them with soft landscaping if necessary, why not?

C moa wrote:[...] But I think that in 25 years, when the installations are renewed, many will not be renewed for lack of subsidy.
It's like CAP subsidies, at some point it will have to stop.
I recently spoke with someone very knowledgeable about the subject who told me that he did not see why wind turbines would last "only" 25 years ...
A fleet that runs well will be maintained over time and the wearing parts will be replaced! Nothing to do with a nuclear power plant ...
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by Christophe » 09/09/08, 13:47

C moa wrote:This is where it is interesting, if the product is local, why they do not offer locals to buy their juice directly ?? We can now buy elsewhere than at EDF !!!


Good question!

I think it's not because the pipes always belong to EDF (RTE) and that they have the legal exclusivity of electric transport and therefore they do what they want with it ...

It was also the case for telecoms for a while: everything had to go through FT lines now (for 2 or 3 years I think) it has changed: operators can draw their own lines.
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by jonule » 09/09/08, 13:48

new leak this Monday ... why are you defending this m ** rde?
it will kill your children, unconscious ...

Rullian wrote:If we paid the electricity, and especially the nuclear at the real price, and not via subsidies financed from our taxes, then I assure you that wind power would be more profitable!

it's clear, nuclear eats all the subsidies and our taxes ... not expensive enough, like oil.

Christophe wrote:Wind: Its development is at the expense of other more sustainable and profitable solutions: brief econological.

> which Christophe? biogas?
your picture is in german, i don't understand anything! devellope!

> the 5% of Germany "supplies": you confuse electricity generation capacity and electricity consumption, again ...

in any case, it sucks to attack the industrial side of wind power, because that of nuclear power is really not brilliant ...
for desertec: ditto it is pure theory, of the announcement effect, but during this time the nuclear power plants are leaking ...

nuclear, TIPP fossil fuel such as petroleum and state taxes. not expensive but polluting, hence the price difference, Christophe! you do not have the dorit to multiply the kWh wind power on the basis of the commercial calculation of EDF, these are not at all the same industrial and environmental bases.

if not me, I'm ready to pay more to get wind power: my little personal mini wind turbine! -)

Cmoa wrote:I quite agree with the idea that it will be necessary to mix energies but the sums garnered by the wind industry do not help research in other fields.

sorry but it's EPR and ITER who have eaten twice the renewable NRJ subsidies, and it doesn't work out because we also pay for construction sites that do not work abroad (Finland, etc.)
nuclear does not help wind, it is French taxes that help nuclear and wind! otherwise in this case nuclear survival is also linked to subsidies.

you're talking about concrete, but that of nuclear installations, you can't even make backfill, it's radioactive, you have to put it in small "waterproof" cans, and after? you bury everything in the ground, is this your lasting solution?

In Brittany there is wind and beaches: you need wind turbines and hydraulics, no other power plants!
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by Christophe » 09/09/08, 13:48

Rulian wrote:Go and pay a shack at Tricastin, and have fun.


Roooh he is angry the Rulian !!! : Cry:

jonule wrote:new leak this Monday ... why are you defending this m ** rde?
it will kill your children, unconscious ...


You haven't understood anything yet !!! : Evil: : Evil:

We do not defend the nuke we say that wind power is not profitable without "nuclear" in France!

It's not really the same as defending the brothel nuke !!

When you pay your electric kWh 27 centimes euros we will discuss it again!

ps: then back from RTT jonule?
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by jonule » 09/09/08, 14:31

no, from CA ... and fiesta! 8)

"Wind power is not profitable without nuclear power" ... you should do a Christophe thesis! very interesting ! : Lol:

that's what I'm saying: as such you defend nuclear ... which leaks and pollutes, contaminates the environment. polluter pays ? then unprofitable nuclear electricity!

but either, if that's not the subject:

you are wrong Christophe saying that nuclear pays for wind power: I tell you that it is our taxes that pay for energy, of which nuclear took almost everything! it doesn't hurt that wind power takes a share anyway!
especially that this is what the consumer WANTS (80% of the French against nuclear) ... I'm talking about the one who pays the taxes we are talking about!


once again: 27 ct / € it's nonsense! your calculation base is worth nothing, it is a pro rata on the repurchase of wind power by nuclear which is subsidized, and on costs not taking into account the disruption of power plants, to name just that!
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by Woodcutter » 09/09/08, 14:38

jonule wrote:[...] once again: 27 ct / € it's nonsense! your calculation base is worth nothing, it is a pro rata on the repurchase of wind power by nuclear which is subsidized, and on costs not taking into account the disruption of power plants, to name just that!
Ok ... if you take a look at what is happening around us in Europe, you will see that we will not be far from it as soon as the prices are no longer "artificial" ...
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by Christophe » 09/09/08, 14:48

80% of French people against nuclear power? Is it coming out of the hat?
Those you know can be ... but not the "others" ...

You probably wanted to say: "80% of the French are false asses very happy to pay their electricity a misery! "And the remark concerns 100% of the militants of Greenpeace or other anti-nuke ecologist who have a hot water tank with electricity!

Jonule you have a dismal lack of analysis and perspective ... it is useless to speak with you when we talk about nuclear ...
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