Cerf wind wheel

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Cuicui
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by Cuicui » 06/12/09, 16:05

raymon wrote: nuclear fusion of the z machine (apparently without tritium) does not bother me too much although it is too centralized

The advantage of hydrogen-boron fusion power plants lies precisely in their relatively small size, which makes it possible to disseminate them everywhere. Nothing to do with the current radioactive uranium fission cathedrals.
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by chatelot16 » 06/12/09, 19:37

it is already quite difficult to regulate what exists: there is therefore no regulation applicable to a huge kite

there are already lots of areas of the French sky prohibited to airplanes

if a large kite wind turbine project were profitable it would certainly be possible to create the forbidden zone that is necessary

when it was decided that large dams were profitable we were able to flood entire valleys and expropriate lots of people

if it were enough to prohibit aircraft a few km2 to produce enormous power ...

I will see many large paragliders all in canvas: the cable will come out of a mast just high enough so that when the cable is fully rolled up the wing does not touch the ground and can take off when the wind comes

the length of the cable is limited because otherwise it will be too heavy: but with 1000 or 2000m of cable it allows to seek the wind higher than the largest current wind turbine

as an experience it could be done in the same conditions as the winching of the gliders: fixed winch on the ground make gliders take off and it rises very high

the price performance ratio of a large number of winch and paraglider could be better than the big classic eoliene but it is not on

with a propeller wind turbine the high speed causes power to be recovered over the entire surface of the disc, even if the surface of the blades is very small

with the kite there is not this multiplier effect: it will require huge surfaces: will it be compensated by the greatest height? you should be able to calculate all this
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by minguinhirigue » 06/12/09, 20:23

The idea is that with the height we have above all a much greater regularity of wind than at low altitude, after that, knowing what altitude we are talking about is another problem.

The jet stream is very regular, but way too high ... what about the layers in 500 and 2000 m, I don't know, I don't have to do research ...
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by chatelot16 » 06/12/09, 20:56

I work in an airport and alas it is not there that it is necessary to seek information of general meteorology: in the control towers there is only the normalized data useful for the landing of the planes ...

I like the small installation within the reach of individuals: unfortunately for the propeller wind turbine the bigger it is the more efficient: we could almost consider that the small 12m wind turbines are pure and simple waste

a good 100m wind turbine will give much more energy than the same amount of money divided into a multitude of small ...

for the kite it is worse: we are not going to prohibit an area for planes to produce mopeds: to move forward it is absolutely necessary to prove that the production will be enormous

the kite is not the only solution: I also thought of the helicopter: a huge helicopter serves as a kite: it does not need to go up and down: its rotor captures power continuously: not necessarily with an alternator in the helicopter: it can also be a cable transmission with the alternator on the ground

advantage, in the event of a sudden lack of wind the electrical network can carry the power for a safe landing
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oiseautempete
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by oiseautempete » 07/12/09, 06:41

chatelot16 wrote:I also thought of the helicopter: a huge helicopter serves as a kite: it does not need to go up and down: its rotor captures power continuously: not necessarily with an alternator in the helicopter: it can be also a cable transmission with the alternator on the ground

advantage, in the event of a sudden lack of wind the electrical network can carry the power for a safe landing

I think you mean an autogyro: on this type of machine, the rotor is driven by the wind, the lift is ensured by the rotational speed of the rotor, but this speed must be precisely regulated from the point of view of its minimum speed, otherwise the lift collapses very quickly and the thing falls like a stone ... a gyroplane does not need an engine to land, neither does a helicopter since the engine is cut it arises the same way as an autogyro, in autorotation ... The problem with this type of machine, is that the simple fact of staying in the air already absorbs a lot of power, so want to recover it on it for the production electricity seems very optimistic ... a cable transmission surely not because the torque that we can pass through a cable is very low ...
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by odrey » 07/12/09, 14:37

Hello,

First of all thank you to everyone for answering me so quickly.
Regarding the problem of planes, it would be a balloon located about 300 m from the ground, or planes have a cruising altitude of about 10 km, therefore, except when the planes lose altitude to land or take off, the balloon will not be located in their flight zone. Nevertheless, I will get closer to the DGAC. As for the very concept of my project, which is still only in the development stage, our balloon would be composed of two propellers inside the balloon, these would be located on either side of '' a kind of cylinder narrowed in the middle to take advantage of the venturi effect. As for solar collectors, they would be placed over the entire upper surface of the balloon envelope. Regarding the economic problem of this concept, the project is not yet at this stage, the yield will be calculated when all the materials used are chosen ... Finally, there is also question in the development of this project , to use the vertical back and forth principle in order to accumulate the energy produced. But this is still only an idea. But to come back to the legislation, I think to focus especially on that (very strict) concerning wind turbines and regulations at aircraft level.
Thank you again for your help.
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by Lietseu » 07/12/09, 18:06

minguinhirigue wrote:The idea is that with the height we have above all a much greater regularity of wind than at low altitude, after that, knowing what altitude we are talking about is another problem.

The jet stream is very regular, but way too high ... what about the layers in 500 and 2000 m, I don't know, I don't have to do research ...


I find it very funny as a concept :D

And I think we should go in the direction of a balloon (Zeppelin type) which would carry within it the kite (wings with variable geometry, canvas?) Which would therefore solve the problem of the mass of the cable and even why not alternators that could be on board ...

With a little imagination and a lot of know-how, it should be quite doable, right?


Meow :P
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by sen-no-sen » 07/12/09, 18:33

http://www.skysails.info/
The use of the kite as a mode of propulsion interests maritime transport.
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by chatelot16 » 07/12/09, 20:22

oiseautempete wrote:
chatelot16 wrote:I also thought of the helicopter: a huge helicopter serves as a kite: it does not need to go up and down: its rotor captures power continuously: not necessarily with an alternator in the helicopter: it can be also a cable transmission with the alternator on the ground

advantage, in the event of a sudden lack of wind the electrical network can carry the power for a safe landing

I think you mean an autogyro: on this type of machine, the rotor is driven by the wind, the lift is ensured by the rotational speed of the rotor, but this speed must be precisely regulated from the point of view of its minimum speed, otherwise the lift collapses very quickly and the thing falls like a stone ... a gyroplane does not need an engine to land, neither does a helicopter since the engine is cut it arises the same way as an autogyro, in autorotation ... The problem with this type of machine, is that the simple fact of staying in the air already absorbs a lot of power, so want to recover it on it for the production electricity seems very optimistic ... a cable transmission surely not because the torque that we can pass through a cable is very low ...


the autogyro only tilts the rotor very slightly so as not to ask the propulsion engine for too much power: my pseudo cable helicopter will tilt its rotor at a much greater angle to take the wind well

when I talk about cable transmission I am not talking about flexible cable like speedometer, or mini drill: I'm talking about cable functioning like a belt between a pulley in the helicopter and a pulley on the alternator on the ground

this type of transmission was used in large factories a century ago to transmit enormous powers: hundreds and thousands of horses: teledynamic transmission

but still it is still ideas in the air ...
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by chatelot16 » 07/12/09, 20:30

with a balon it makes you want to put a good wind turbine propeller: the balon would only be an alternative to the mast

a good idea to have a variable height with the force of the wind: the weaker the wind the higher the balon goes up to seek a sufficient wind

the stronger the wind the more we descend to avoid breaking everything

the balloon is interesting not to fall to the ground when the wind is zero
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