KENDERV engine: closed circuit heat engine

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 12/06/08, 23:53

Mister inventor, we could have a diagram PV of the cycle please?

Here is that of a diesel (mixed cycle of sabathé):
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by Remundo » 13/06/08, 00:31

In my opinion, it's Brayton Joule version "Mr Freeze"
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I was having fun on a calculation with the hypothesis of a reversible adiabatic relaxation of a factor 10 (P0 = 200 Bar at P = 20 Bar) of a perfect gas ... from T0 = 20 ° C = 293 K.
And well I find as temperature after the relaxation T = -121 ° C

To go down to -250 ° C, you have to take the decompression rate to 7000 : Shock: , for example from 200 Bar to 0,03 Bar : Shock: it's unachievable in one step. It takes a cascade of decompression stages.

Besides, what's the point ... as Christophe says, no cold thermostat unless -250 ° C available ... (note the qout on the PV diagram, without the qout, it does not work...)

PS:
For fans of thermo: T = T0 (P0 / P) ^ (- 2 / 7) with temperature in Kelvin, comes from the Laplace law T ^ g P ^ (1-g) = cte for an isentropic with g = 1,4 coefficient of Mayer
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by Capt_Maloche » 14/06/08, 10:39

The cycle is different, there is no combustion or change of state of the fluid which remains in its gaseous form

why a compression ratio of 7000?

we just need to know if we can really convert the thermal energy absorbed in the exchanger into mechanical energy to the relaxation

Pressure drop achieved by the expansion without heat exchange?
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by Christophe » 14/06/08, 10:45

Maieuh !!! Remundo what are you doing? : Mrgreen: It was to the inventor that I asked ... :|

The problem as you say is that there is no Q there is only a Q in ...

For the rest I dry :D I loved the thermo when I was in class ... but this is a bit old ... anyway it's like everything when you practice ... : Mrgreen:
Last edited by Christophe the 14 / 06 / 08, 11: 14, 1 edited once.
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by georges100 » 14/06/08, 10:58

and even with the practice there are some who have never been gifted : Mrgreen:
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Remundo
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by Remundo » 14/06/08, 22:43

Capt_Maloche wrote:The cycle is different, there is no combustion or change of state of the fluid which remains in its gaseous form

why a compression ratio of 7000?

we just need to know if we can really convert the thermal energy absorbed in the exchanger into mechanical energy to the relaxation

Pressure drop achieved by the expansion without heat exchange?

Ah ... no burning certainly, but heating is almost isobaric by the atmosphere, YES!

The Brayton Joule works preferentially with gas, just as Kenderv suggests with its H2.

The pressure drop is indeed adiabatic, or if you prefer, without any heat transfer.

The problem is that at the end of relaxation, it is necessary to cool even more (hence the qout), if not, no cycle, and therefore no mechanical work.

It is shown in thermo that the area of ​​the cycle on the PV diagram = the mechanical work.

If there is no cooling at the end of relaxation, the recompression is done on the same path as the trigger and one recovers NOTHING.
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by Remundo » 14/06/08, 22:58

Hi Christopher,

I answer to bother you : Cheesy: . More seriously, it is to advance the schmilblick.

Kenderv hardly frequents the forum and in my opinion, it is impossible to give the thermodynamic foundations of his machine.

He also remains free to provide his "clarifications".

I say this without wanting to look scornful, but it is scientifically obvious that the principle of this machine, as presented here (ie without cooling at the end of relaxation) does not work.

For calculations, this is the "beast" application of Laplace's law concerning the reversible adiabatic evolutions of an ideal gas: T ^ g P ^ (1-g) = cte

To go from 20 ° C = 293K, P0 = 200Bar, to T = -250 ° C = 23K, P = ?, in one expansion, you must have P0 / P = 7000 with g = 1,4 (corresponding to a Perfect Gas diatomic as H2),
either P = P0 / 7000

That makes 0,03 Bar, it deposits like decompression rate !! : Lol:

Now Kenderv talks about 20 Bar, it gets at best under these conditions only T = 151K = -121 ° C (with P0 / P = 200 / 20 = 10)

To revise : http://pagesperso-orange.fr/patrick.koh ... _energ.htm

to +

Christophe wrote:Maieuh !!! Remundo what are you doing? : Mrgreen: It was to the inventor that I asked ... :|

The problem as you say is that there is no Q there is only a Q in ...

For the rest I dry :D I loved the thermo when I was in class ... but this is a bit old ... anyway it's like everything when you practice ... : Mrgreen:
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by chatelot16 » 15/06/08, 16:36

I confirm what just explained Remundo: relax is useless if there is no cooling before recompress

the passage through a low temperature is useless if there is not a cold source available at this temperature

worse when the gas will be very cold it will receive heat from the ambient air if the system is not perfectly isolated: the compression will require more energy ca: the passage at low temperature is a loss!
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by myCousin » 24/09/08, 21:03

Hello,

I come back to this forum to already thank all those who contributed in one way or another to make known the project of my father, Jean Cousin (pseudo: kenderv) ...

I realize that I did not specify much by creating this subject, to make known its work. The goal is for us to force the Inpi not to stifle the project. What worked besides: since it allowed my father to be contacted by investors ... And today we wait for the proto: We will inform you immediately of the results conclusive or not ...

The patent could also be published: http://fr.espacenet.com/publicationDetails/biblio?CC=FR&NR=2913467A1&KC=A1&DB=fr.espacenet.com&locale=fr_FR

because my father managed to convince the Inpi that his invention was very respectful of the second principle but on the condition of modernizing this second principle which was stated:

a heat engine can only work with two sources of heat:
a hot spring and cold source: the heat transfer agent in work receives heat from the hot source and gives heat to the cold source


by the following wording:

a heat engine can only work with two sources of energy:
a hot spring and source of energy extraction: the heat transfer agent in work receives heat from the hot source and gives up energy (residual thermal energy) to the source of energy extraction


explanations:

In steam engines: the source of energy extraction is the condenser cooled by air or water

In the Kenderv engine: the hot source is the atmosphere (air or water) the source of energy extraction is the accelerator that sucks the gas from the decompression chamber and pulses it into the heater.

For this system to provide mechanical energy, it must extract less energy than it produces which requires working at very low temperatures


I hope this will have convinced you ... otherwise I promise you a video of the tests as soon as they are made.

As for the PV chart, my father did not want to release it before the patent was protected internationally, but since it's done, here it is:

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Thank you and see you soon !
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by bham » 25/09/08, 09:52

Nice to have news on schedule. I am looking forward to seeing this video.
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