Hydroelectric turbine and ram pump

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
Targol
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by Targol » 29/09/06, 12:41

gegyx wrote:
gegyx wrote:If there is no watercourse, and it is in a closed circuit, NOT.
There are losses in the turbine (lower efficiency).
A ram pump, to raise a little water, needs the passage of a lot of water, to accomplish this action.

In your link there is a stream ... which releases much more water than it goes up, from where the ram gets its energy.
Image
Quiche is good too!


Something I hadn't seen but which is well explained in the brochure : part of the water passing through the pump is lost to the circuit.

Thank you Gegyx for looking into my almost hopeless case.
Image <- thing having nothing to do with the subject, but I like it !!!
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by Targol » 29/09/06, 13:02

Okay, so this system, as presented does not work.

On the other hand, in another order of ideas: knowing that electricity is stored very poorly on the one hand and that wind energy is fluctuating on the other hand, could we not consider this type of system as a "battery? of potential energy "which can advantageously replace the standard batteries which accumulate electrical energy with the faults that are known to them.

It would give something in style:
Image

The turbine would be started "on demand" when juice is needed.

We could couple this with photovoltaic panels which, in the event of "domestic" demand would supply the circuit, in the event of a slack period, would supply an electric lift pump.

Suddenly, no need for batteries.
Do you find it more interesting as an idea? or is it still completely stupid?Image
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by Woodcutter » 29/09/06, 16:37

This is what EDF does, in particular at Grand-Maison ...
Except that these are not wind turbines that raise the water but nuclear power plants.
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by gegyx » 29/09/06, 22:26

Targol wrote:Thank you Gegyx for looking into my almost hopeless case.
Image <- thing having nothing to do with the subject, but I like it !!!

I forgive you, you are a man of taste ...

Aries, we talked about it a while ago, and for me it was clear:
The hydraulic ram has a major defect, which makes it unusable in many cases: its efficiency is only 20 to 30% depending on the case. That is to say that approximately 70 to 80% of the water arriving in the device will be lost. Aries is therefore an ideal solution for raising free and abundant water (a source, a stream) but not when water is scarce.
http://www.demain-la-terre.net/Le-belier-hydraulique
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Your suggestion to use the retention basin, to shift the use, of the production, is valid.
But the wind turbine brings up the water in small quantities, the turbine needs a high flow.
The two lower yields reduce the overall yield.
The gigantic dams, fed naturally by rivers, take up a lot of space, and do not produce as much as that, compared to nuclear power, but that's all good.
But note that it is at the scale of a country.
In your example, There is no natural stream, you need a pump to bring the water up into the basin.
Do you sincerely think that this more complicated and expensive system, than a simple roadblock, can be used by an individual?
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by Targol » 30/09/06, 12:00

I do not know if it is usable by an individual.
More, in my opinion, than a cogeneration biogas plant or a microturbine.

My goal is to find solutions that would allow us to strive for energy autonomy while avoiding the disappointment of the hyper technical solution that is untenable for the average clampin.

In fact, I'm looking for "Mad max" solutions: that we install, that we forget and that we possibly repair with a paper clip and a piece of string.

The batteries have the disadvantage of being damaged over time which requires to buy them again which implies that the autonomy is only temporary. A "potential energy battery" system like this only requires occasional flushing and a rainwater harvesting system to compensate for leaks.
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by gegyx » 30/09/06, 12:32

In your idea, you need a lot of specific and specialized ground.
A micro turbine + a wind farm + a basin + a large basin located high up.
All these elements have their charms, but are not possible for the average person.
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by Targol » 30/09/06, 14:55

Yes, that's for sure, no solution is universal. I take the option "I have land how to use it for my autonomy."

... Although thinking about it, this type of system could be conceived in town: a tank and the wind turbine on the roof, another tank and the turbine in the cellar.
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by Woodcutter » 02/10/06, 10:56

Yes, absolutely, it could also be used in the case of recovery of rainwater used for washing or watering in collective habitats: each time the person responsible for the maintenance of the common areas turn on the tap, it produces (a little ...) electricity : Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 08/10/06, 22:19

Received by mail:

For your information, I carried out a detailed study on the hydraulic ram (principle, theory and practice); see my site http://www.regispetit.com

Perhaps this study interests your site and its readers? In particular to calculate, build, install and troubleshoot such an entirely ecological machine.

cordially

Regis Petit

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by Woodcutter » 09/10/06, 21:09

Not bad ...
I think this time I really understood the principle! : Cheesy:
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