Green hydrogen from Air Liquide

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Ahmed
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Re: Green hydrogen




by Ahmed » 19/06/21, 20:16

The qualifier of "renewable" is the new sesame dispensing with thinking ...
The poor performance of the "gas plant" which starts from intermittent energy production (or not, but this is even less defensible), to the hydrogen energy carrier, then from the fuel cell to the wheel in addition constitutes an extremely complex and particularly expensive solution.
As for transporting this gas over great distances, this can only be envisaged by transforming it into a more manageable and denser energy molecule ...
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Re: Green hydrogen




by gildas » 20/06/21, 12:23

Water from fuel cells should be recovered, water contributes to the greenhouse effect if it falls on the road in summer (evaporation).
Greenhouse gases are gaseous components of the atmosphere that contribute to the greenhouse effect (bearing in mind that the atmosphere contains other non-gaseous components that contribute to the greenhouse effect, like the drops of water from the clouds on Earth). These gases have the common characteristic of absorbing part of the infrared rays emitted by the Earth's surface.

The main greenhouse gases are water vapor, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (or nitrous oxide, with the formula N2O) and ozone (O3) .

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effet_de_serre
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Re: Green hydrogen




by humus » 20/06/21, 12:48

Ahmed wrote:The qualifier of "renewable" is the new sesame dispensing with thinking ...
The poor performance of the "gas plant" which starts from intermittent energy production (or not, but this is even less defensible), to the hydrogen energy carrier, then from the fuel cell to the wheel in addition constitutes an extremely complex and particularly expensive solution.
As for transporting this gas over great distances, this can only be envisaged by transforming it into a more manageable and denser energy molecule ...

Hydrogen doesn't transport that badly
http://www.afhypac.org/documents/tout-s ... 9%20PM.pdf

the performance of a vehicle equipped with a fuel cell is not so bad
https://www.afhypac.org/actualites/arti ... ique-1682/

The combustion engine has hydrogen rather than equipped with a fuel cell
https://www.h2-mobile.fr/actus/ricardo- ... hydrogene/


All this remains open, since (re) emerging and seems better than to remain frozen on our carbon solutions, whether for the climate and energy depletions.
Last edited by humus the 20 / 06 / 21, 12: 53, 1 edited once.
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Re: Green hydrogen




by humus » 20/06/21, 12:52

Gildas wrote:Water from fuel cells should be recovered, water contributes to the greenhouse effect if it falls on the road in summer (evaporation).
Greenhouse gases are gaseous components of the atmosphere that contribute to the greenhouse effect (bearing in mind that the atmosphere contains other non-gaseous components that contribute to the greenhouse effect, like the drops of water from the clouds on Earth). These gases have the common characteristic of absorbing part of the infrared rays emitted by the Earth's surface.

The main greenhouse gases are water vapor, carbon dioxide (CO2), methane (CH4), nitrous oxide (or nitrous oxide, with the formula N2O) and ozone (O3) .

https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effet_de_serre


Water vapor is not a concern. What to see in the event of the generalization of hydrogen transport?
However, only a very small part of the atmospheric water vapor is due to human activities. Most of the water vapor is therefore responsible for the natural greenhouse effect, without which planet Earth would have an average temperature of -18 ° C.

Finally, water vapor stays in the atmosphere for a very short time, barely a few days, while a gas like carbon dioxide stays there for about a century.

Water vapor emissions therefore play a very negligible direct role in increasing the greenhouse effect.

https://www.futura-sciences.com/planete ... serre-912/
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Re: Green hydrogen




by thibr » 20/06/21, 13:41

the hydrogen problem for the car is the overall efficiency compared to electricity
Image
http://www.fiches-auto.fr/articles-auto ... iable-.php
Review of
Although bear skin should never be sold, it seems that hydrogen technology is not necessarily more interesting than lithium to power our cars. However, this energy still seems to offer enough advantages to fit into the wide range of the current energy mix. We can then imagine a use that would perhaps concern larger vehicles, such as public transport. There would then be no need to develop a ruinous distribution network with tens of thousands of hydrogen stations. Refueling only public transport is already much more scope. Of course, this fuel is a source of energy that can be used for many other things besides transportation. And while some brands seem to rely partly on hydrogen, there is absolutely nothing guaranteed at the moment. If if they do, it is above all to be sure to be up to date if this energy becomes popular. Having models nearby and a first industrial experience in the manufacture of this type of model is an asset if this technology breaks through. Manufacturers no longer want to be fooled, as was a bit the case with Tesla (Renault had a good idea when it started off fairly early ...) and its bet on electrics (which seems to be definitely propelled, although the the future may have some surprises in store for us ...).
And finally, know that Musk doesn't believe in hydrogen.
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Re: Green Hydrogen from Air Liquide




by izentrop » 20/06/21, 14:22

25% of yield without counting the technological fragility, the enormous cost in rare earths, maintenance, risks to carry out this chain of transformations described in the image.

Hydrogen is just a spare tire, a last resort to exploit the lack of storage of renewable energies with a huge carbon footprint that it would be good to take into account. : Shock:
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Re: Green Hydrogen from Air Liquide




by humus » 20/06/21, 14:38

izentrop wrote:25% yield without taking into account the technological fragility, the enormous cost in rare earths, maintenance, risks

Linked above, it is quite possible to use a heat engine with hydrogen.


izentrop wrote:Hydrogen is just a spare tire, a last resort to exploit the lack of storage of renewable energies with a huge carbon footprint that it would be good to take into account. : Shock:

Why a huge carbon footprint?
Because of the transformation of materials and construction?
Currently, whatever we do, we have no choice but to use carbonaceous fossils, because of the sectors historically in place.
While staying below 2 ° C, we might as well use the rest of the fossils allowed and set up channels using only renewable energy.
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Re: Green hydrogen




by humus » 20/06/21, 14:45

thibr wrote:the hydrogen problem for the car is the overall efficiency compared to electricity

It's not just performance in life.
Biomass has a deplorable solar yield, should we not use it for all that?

With a lower efficiency than electricity or hydrogen with a fuel cell, thermal hydrogen would be simpler and less greedy in scarce resources than these two previous solutions.
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Re: Green hydrogen




by sicetaitsimple » 20/06/21, 17:40

Ahmed wrote:The poor performance of the "gas plant" which starts from intermittent energy production (or not, but this is even less defensible), to the hydrogen energy carrier, then from the fuel cell to the wheel in addition constitutes an extremely complex and particularly expensive solution.
As for transporting this gas over great distances, this can only be envisaged by transforming it into a more manageable and denser energy molecule ...

It's simple, YAKA install a CO2 capture installation on a combustion plant and then install a "Sabatier" plant that goes with the CO2 and the H2 to produce CH4 (methane, or roughly "natural" gas) plus a little water.
Just ask .....
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Re: Green hydrogen




by dede2002 » 23/06/21, 12:37

humus wrote:
thibr wrote:the hydrogen problem for the car is the overall efficiency compared to electricity

It's not just performance in life.
Biomass has a deplorable solar yield, should we not use it for all that?

With a lower efficiency than electricity or hydrogen with a fuel cell, thermal hydrogen would be simpler and less greedy in scarce resources than these two previous solutions.


The yield is just a number relating to the rate of wastage, by improving the yield we can do as much by consuming less, or do more by consuming as much, as desired, we could also do less by consuming less ...

According to you, biomass is a machine at our service? How do you calculate its return?
For me, it's more of a whole that we are part of!

In the table on hydrogen, it is the production of fuel (sorry, fuel) that is the problem, not the electric motor.
A heat engine is a gas plant on its own, and it would reduce the efficiency to around 12% (25% of 50%)

And a hydrogen heat engine will inevitably produce nitrogen oxides, even more if we try to improve its efficiency.
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