Wind power: for or against the wind?

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
izentrop
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by izentrop » 20/07/18, 10:36

Ahmed wrote: the correlation between energy expenditure and destruction is indisputable
Reactionary!
I think, on the contrary, that correcting the mistakes of the past and present is quite possible as long as everyone has to gain comfort and safety. I trust the youth to straighten it all out.
Ahmed wrote:In short, this is the story of the bacteria in its petri dish ...
Comparison is not right.
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by sen-no-sen » 20/07/18, 12:17

izentrop wrote:
Ahmed wrote: the correlation between energy expenditure and destruction is indisputable
Reactionary!
I think on the contrary which correcting the mistakes of the past and present is entirely possible as long as everyone has to gain comfort and safety. .


It is necessary to differentiate a personal opinion which is the belief of a scientific observation.
The increase in energy dissipation (a fortiori through technological means) necessarily induces a modification of the environment to which it is necessary to readjust through an even greater energy dissipation. This initiates a phenomenon of positive feedback of the type Red queen.

The trees of the Borneo forest do not fall under the effect of global warming (1) but under the action of chainsaws and bulldozers, i.e. basically under the action of a form of energy (2 ), it is obviously the same thing concerning urbanization and overfishing, we are going through a crisis entropic(3)

I trust the youth to straighten it all out.


It is politicians' speech, that is to say "after me the Flood"!
For future generations to progress further, we would have to bequeath to them something other than hell ... : roll:



(1) Not yet fortunately for us!
(2) Whether thermal or electric does not change the operation of a chainsaw.
(3) entropy (linked to entropy) and obviously anthropogenic (linked to human action).
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Janic » 20/07/18, 12:28

sen no sen hello
agree in all points with what you have just written. : Cheesy:
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Ahmed » 20/07/18, 16:10

There is a great thermodynamic rule that applies to all living beings (and probably to others): it is that in order to survive one must not expend more energy than that which can be obtained by this expenditure. A concrete example: a predator must choose a prey representing the best ratio between the effort required to capture it (including the risk of losing one's own life) and the quantity of recoverable calories. The overall short-term balance must always be positive (small errors are therefore allowed).
As far as man is concerned, I will distinguish two periods of transition; that of the Neolithic which better regulates caloric expenditure / income: fewer variations, but low net gain which leads to the simple exchange economy consisting in spending only the quantity of calories required to produce that corresponding to the useful flow (including the surplus intended for the exchange of what is not self-produced). Then, and this is where I think the decisive change is, the ability to use outside calories, which completely changes the situation and makes it possible to break this rule. However, it should not be deduced, as most observers do too quickly, that this is an exception deserved by a greater specific genius (in the sense of the present case) because it can only hope to escape momentarily the general rule by introducing a general and inevitably prejudicial disruption (destruction of living conditions on earth), since it requires permanent adaptation and increasingly difficult.
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 20/07/18, 16:40

izentrop wrote:
nico239 wrote:
izentrop wrote:The only way out, no
My faith if you know another one it is willingly.
For the moment no.
The ENR's, when the batteries based on simple and current elements are ready (sodium, sulfur ...), meanwhile, solar and wind cannot respond effectively to demand.

Phase 3 of nuclear power will make it possible to exploit the fission of thorium, which will ensure for over 1000 years, the transition to another paradigm. Decrease is not for tomorrow : Wink:


We totally agree Image

That's why I don't see why we gesticulate so much for alternative energies when it is pure communication.

However, this does not prevent us from developing them to the maximum of the acceptances of ... environmentalists. Image

Living near ITER I hope that the research on the atom will be successful.

The Chinese have indeed laid a quantum computer ...
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 20/07/18, 16:53

Ahmed wrote:You then write:
Can you explain "the idea that a collapse can result from the very success of an ideology of success is very counter intuitive"?

In short, this is the story of the bacteria in its petri dish ... When some western countries practiced successfully and on a large scale extractivism against peripheral countries, the model was temporarily tenable, but this ideology has unfortunately spread (mimetic rivalry) to the whole of the globe and certain countries, and not least, have adopted it. Consequently, what was harmful becomes frankly unbearable since extractivisms find themselves in head-on competition. This can only bring systemic contradictions more quickly to their breaking point.


ImageWell, no.

Most of the “peripheral” countries have taken over their own resources.

The breaking point is therefore not at the level of "head-on competition" of extractivism but at the level of the progressive depletion of resources.
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Ahmed » 20/07/18, 20:52

Precisely, competition is head-on because the extractivism of the various actors is exerted to the detriment of the same countries, on a resource which decreases in the face of a demand which inevitably grows (from a certain point of view!).
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by sen-no-sen » 20/07/18, 21:19

Ahmed wrote:However, it should not be deduced, as most observers do too quickly, that this is an exception deserved by a greater specific genius (in the sense of the present case) because it can only hope to escape momentarily the general rule by introducing a general and inevitably prejudicial disruption (destruction of living conditions on earth), since it requires permanent adaptation and increasingly difficult.


Very true, indeed any extraction of energy leads to the production of entropy which is reflected sooner or later within the biosphere.
We could represent this schematically by means of a phase and a against phase.
In his last work Pierre Jovanovic develops a very relevant idea according to which the accession to power ofAdolf Hitler would be a consequence of the implementation of the ticket printing machine.
The production of fictitious values ​​would have generated a counter phase which would have manifested itself in the advent of fascism (1).
As has already been mentioned before, the development of so-called "clean" energy sources would in all cases lead to consequences in our societies, both ecological and social.


(1) We often find in popular tales examples that symbolically explain this state of affairs, such as Faust.
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Adrien (ex-nico239) » 20/07/18, 21:45

Ahmed wrote:Precisely, competition is head-on because the extractivism of the various actors is exerted to the detriment of the same countries, on a resource which decreases in the face of a demand which inevitably grows (from a certain point of view!).


No

Extractivism is not exercised to the detriment of the countries which practice it.

On the contrary, he serves them. Image
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Re: Wind: for or against the wind?




by Ahmed » 20/07/18, 22:16

Guess the emoticon means "wishful thinking"? : Lol:
Note: when I write "the same countries", it means the target countries of extractivism ...
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