Diode wind concentrator...

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FALCON_12
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by FALCON_12 » 16/01/23, 09:45

SebastianL wrote:
FALCON_12 wrote:
SebastianL wrote:Forcing the air to change direction at 90° imposes an infinite acceleration. With what energy do you accelerate this mass of air? With the kinetic energy of the flow which is transformed into pressure > patmo and therefore manages to pass the "valve" fins for a small proportion, the rest preferring to pass by.
You can wiggle as much as you want, the upward flow of your tower will not have more kinetic energy, than the flow arriving on one side of your tower.
The only advantage is the aesthetics and the reduced noise, these days and given the hatred that is developing around wind turbines, it remains a good concept provided you do not dream of a cubic exponent of power


I grant you that putting valves whose axis of rotation would be at the bottom and whose direction of opening would be anti-clockwise would undoubtedly improve the pressure drop. I had also thought of putting pipes inside that would lead the air admitted by each valve to the top without it interfering with the air entering through the other valves. One can also think of splaying the base of the tower so that the new valves can return to their position without wind by the simple effect of gravity instead of a return by spring or other. And finally, I'm also thinking of adding fins that would concentrate the air towards the tower, why do without? ;)


if you put PV cells on all your fins, which seem numerous, you will greatly boost production.
SebastianL wrote:
FALCON_12 wrote:
SebastianL wrote:Forcing the air to change direction at 90° imposes an infinite acceleration. With what energy do you accelerate this mass of air? With the kinetic energy of the flow which is transformed into pressure > patmo and therefore manages to pass the "valve" fins for a small proportion, the rest preferring to pass by.
You can wiggle as much as you want, the upward flow of your tower will not have more kinetic energy, than the flow arriving on one side of your tower.
The only advantage is the aesthetics and the reduced noise, these days and given the hatred that is developing around wind turbines, it remains a good concept provided you do not dream of a cubic exponent of power


I grant you that putting valves whose axis of rotation would be at the bottom and whose direction of opening would be anti-clockwise would undoubtedly improve the pressure drop. I had also thought of putting pipes inside that would lead the air admitted by each valve to the top without it interfering with the air entering through the other valves. One can also think of splaying the base of the tower so that the new valves can return to their position without wind by the simple effect of gravity instead of a return by spring or other. And finally, I'm also thinking of adding fins that would concentrate the air towards the tower, why do without? ;)


if you put PV cells on all your fins, which seem numerous, you will greatly boost production.



Hmmm... I had thought of transparent fins with a black ground below, like the solar tower, you must know.
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FALCON_12
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by FALCON_12 » 16/01/23, 09:57

Forhorse wrote:Power is measured in volts? I did not know...


The energy increases monotonically with U(v) since it is proportional to UxU.

Concerning P I had thought of doing another experiment to measure its possible increase with the concentrator.

Finally I will not do it since I think that the thing is already demonstrated. Indeed, the guide bearings of the shaft of the fan oppose it with viscous and/or dry friction which are also monotonically increasing functions of its speed of rotation.

The power being the product of the resisting torque by the speed of rotation, it is therefore mandatory that the power produced by the fan be greater since it rotates faster.

In this situation, the concentrator therefore makes it possible to extract more power from the flow, I think I have demonstrated this.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Exnihiloest » 16/01/23, 10:46

FALCON_12 wrote:
Forhorse wrote:Power is measured in volts? I did not know...


The energy increases monotonically with U(v) since it is proportional to UxU.
...


Irrelevant.

"In physics and metrology, a unit of measurement is a "real scalar quantity, defined and adopted by convention, to which any other quantity of the same nature can be compared to express the investigation report of the two quantities in the form of a number ""

The energy here "is proportional to UxU" so it is not proportional to U.
Doubling the number of volts quadruples the energy, it is clear that the energy is not proportional to the volts therefore cannot be measured in volts. It is measured in joules or at least in kWh.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Christophe » 16/01/23, 11:22

FALCON_12 wrote:The wind can change direction. In a context where the wind has a fixed direction all day this tower is of no use. But if you have strong winds in different directions at certain times of the day or winds that change direction often, it can be useful. In any case having a fixed system and a very appreciable thing


Yes, but you said that the tower concentrated several wind directions: I'm telling you that at a given time T the wind always blows in one direction only...except tornado or violent storm, this direction changes quite slowly... which allows conventional wind turbines to orient themselves...

This thing concentrates especially the losses of loads... and energy.

But hey, you can make one and get back to us.

I think this concept would only be valid in regions where the wind blows very hard very often... like high mountains or polar regions.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Christophe » 16/01/23, 11:26

FALCON_12 wrote:In this situation, the concentrator therefore makes it possible to extract more power from the flow, I think I have demonstrated this.


Repeat a test at 10 cm and 30 cm please and even at 0 cm... there, you compensate for the dissipation of an air flow... but the weather wind is fairly constant in its normal plane.

It's going to blow over the next few days, do a test with the weather wind too: obviously as the surface of your concentrator is larger, it will work: it's the principle of the funnel.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by FALCON_12 » 16/01/23, 11:28

Exnihiloest wrote:
FALCON_12 wrote:
Forhorse wrote:Power is measured in volts? I did not know...


The energy increases monotonically with U(v) since it is proportional to UxU.
...


Irrelevant.

"In physics and metrology, a unit of measurement is a "real scalar quantity, defined and adopted by convention, to which any other quantity of the same nature can be compared to express the investigation report of the two quantities in the form of a number ""

The energy here "is proportional to UxU" so it is not proportional to U.



I find it difficult to follow you, I did not say that the energy was proportional to U, I only said that it increased with U and that it
was proportional to UxU.

What is the meaning of your comment? my dear Exnihiloest I lose myself in conjectures! ;)
Last edited by FALCON_12 the 16 / 01 / 23, 11: 29, 1 edited once.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Christophe » 16/01/23, 11:29

Remundo wrote:
SebastianL wrote:Forcing the air to change direction at 90° imposes an infinite acceleration.

here then !

have you ever taken a roundabout?


We never turn 90° in a car, we follow curved trajectories, except in a violent accident.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Forhorse » 16/01/23, 11:50

FALCON_12 wrote:I find it difficult to follow you, I did not say that the energy was proportional to U, I only said that it increased with U and that it
was proportional to UxU.


A no-load voltage means nothing... you have to revise the basics of electrical engineering.
The power is equal to U²/R but if R tends to infinity, then P tends to 0 even if U is very large.
In short, for a relevant demonstration, it is necessary to measure P and not U, and in a range that makes measurement errors negligible...
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by Christophe » 16/01/23, 12:07

For a quick test, an open-load voltage is still significant of a rotation speed (at no-load, etc.)

So the fan spins faster with the concentrator...empty...that's for sure!

Tinkering with a very small brake that would stop the rotation of the test without the concentrator at the limit of the braking and seeing if it restarts, brake in place (not touched not touched!), with the concentrator would prove that it brings an additional torque.
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Re: Diode wind concentrator...




by FALCON_12 » 16/01/23, 12:10

Forhorse wrote:
FALCON_12 wrote:I find it difficult to follow you, I did not say that the energy was proportional to U, I only said that it increased with U and that it
was proportional to UxU.


A no-load voltage means nothing... you have to revise the basics of electrical engineering.
The power is equal to U²/R but if R tends to infinity, then P tends to 0 even if U is very large.
In short, for a relevant demonstration, it is necessary to measure P and not U, and in a range that makes measurement errors negligible...

Forhorse wrote:
FALCON_12 wrote:I find it difficult to follow you, I did not say that the energy was proportional to U, I only said that it increased with U and that it
was proportional to UxU.


A no-load voltage means nothing... you have to revise the basics of electrical engineering.
The power is equal to U²/R but if R tends to infinity, then P tends to 0 even if U is very large.
In short, for a relevant demonstration, it is necessary to measure P and not U, and in a range that makes measurement errors negligible...


- The no-load voltage provides information on w (the speed of rotation), because it is proportional to it.
It therefore allows here to assert that w'>w (with the concentrator, it runs faster).

- In the absence of load (Pelec=0 because R=infinite as you say) there is still the mechanical power (the resistive torques against which the fan must fight).

You take a 5/20 my dear Forhorse! I'm sure that by picking up your electro-technical lessons again, you'll do better at the next check-up! :P

It was a joke, don't take it the wrong way!
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