Organic Rankine Cycle (ORC) and renewable energy

[chatelot16]

(2700-2400) / (2700-200) = = 0,12 12%

[Christophe]

Well and the same thing (T °) with a Rxxx?

[chatelot16]

this is not the choice of fluid will change the performance

a single cycle of the freon rankine donera also a slightly lower yield performance of Carnot

One of the solution to give the rankine cycle an equal performance of Carnot cycle is the extraction

a different point of detente condensation of water and extracted a little steam, and is used to warm the water in the boiler return: suddenly the water comes to the boiler already has the right temperature: premium that the main defect of single rankine cycle and it gives the whole performance carnot

oddly the problem solved by the racking is the low temperature side of the cycle: or you see nothing because everything is in the thickness of the line on the diagrame of Molier ... but it tilts the stroke of the trigger, and it increases the yield calculated with the enthalpy

but beware, with Bleed it is no longer a single cycle, since all the steam is not the complete tour ... a party of laps reduced

the blow of the racking will increase the theoretical yield of the 12 15%% of Carnot, but this is only the theoretical efficiency of the cycle ... the result will be what it can based on the quality of the item, and stroke the withdrawal will be unnecessary compliquation

to improve the yield it is simpler to better position the boiler to simply increase the temperature! this is what is done in the thermal power plant coal!

ATTENTION these custom chart of Molier his little precise: find 10 12 or 15% does not mean much: the calculation of the limit of Carnot is simpler and more accurate

the low pressure steam turbine is in favor of ... the last floors of soufleur pouraient be kind of dead leaves all plastic!

with refrigerant is the highest pressure, it is rather a piston machine which will yield the best ... when it comes to turbine is often scroll, not the turbine! but the volumetric machine with frotement everywhere

choose steam or freon, it is with the big and simple steam, with freon little more complicated

[fredericponcet]

In summary, the proposed cogeneration Novotek is smoky than Neoterre?

I have another question. I read some arguments on recent 9 pages, and I kept getting a good return with a thermodynamic machine was not easy, especially if we built it ourselves.

Suppose now that I'm on a forum of do-it-yourselfers and Geo Trouvetout and that failing to compete with manufacturers on the performance of their products, I try to manufacture what they do not sell (because I would be perhaps their only customer and that the development of the product would never be amortized).

Let us suppose that I live in isolated, energetically "autonomous" site and that I wish to find for the winter a source other than the generator.

Suppose I have a pellet boiler of the simplest model ever (a Bruno pellets II).

Suppose I seek all possible solutions to avoid consuming my entire photovoltaic production in December with the sole operation of the pump and converters, for example.

To put it another way, that I do not perceive the energy problem as an average citizen who heats his water in an electric balloon, but as a fanatic who has chosen to experience energy decrease "for real".

To put it differently, if I could produce in winter, one way or another, if that 50 small but 24h watts / 24, I'd be all excited.

In short, keep it simple, and since I see that there is here a lot of experts in thermodynamics, my question is this: with a boiler kW 12 out of the water 95 ° C (and a source cold potentially within 5 ° C) is it possible to run a machine, regardless of its performance, which can produce at least 50 W?

I understand that it is not very satisfying for the mind to design a machine of poor performance; but we must not lose sight of the fact that all the energy which is not converted into mechanical energy, then electrical, is "lost" in heat. However, if this heat is lost inside the home, it is not really a loss, since it basically comes from a system intended to heat ... well, that's the idea cogeneration, what.

[chatelot16]

starting from the 95 ° C in a normal boiler, performance is lousy and it will not make your 50W that when the power of the boiler is huge ... when it's so cold and that operates the weaker it Chaudier not give anything

if someone really wants to make a small steam engine I prefer a small boiler steam with a small fireplace, and going up a pressure and temperature serious: that will yield 20% but that will be too small to make heating the house

50W electric, thermal 200W so ... nothing to heat the house, but heat will not be lost even when the heat demand is low

it is useful to mount pressure to seek a high yield? yes because if you walk a lower pressure with a yield of 10% of it will 50W electric thermal 450W kind: it requires a home and a boiler 2 2 times larger so times more expensive to build

it is unrealistic to build a small steam engine's high efficiency? there are model steam enthusiast reduced to doing geniale construction, but the goal is usually to make beautiful model reduced, not to seek high yield

there are many modeliste steam that are good mechanic and machinist, but without sufficient knowledge thermodynamics to move in that direction

it would be interesting to launch the idea of ​​making a race to the best performance in amateur vaporist, to change the usual race to the most beautiful machine

for me the steam is not the best solution we can do better with the gasifier system wood and engine explosion

but vapor solution keeps advantage

an engine has low performance on the power of a large boiler can only be used when you need to heat ... a small steam engine has high efficiency with a small home can be used all year round!

in my current project there are some pump compressor has high efficiency heat ... with double acting piston ... very close to a steam engine

who is really interested?

[fredericponcet]

starting from the 95 ° C in a normal boiler, performance is lousy and it will not make your 50W that when the power of the boiler is huge ... when it's so cold and that operates the weaker it Chaudier not give anything

This is exactly what I want.

So it's possible? With a Stirling or Rankine?

[chatelot16]

of course it's possible ... it has even already been done

the first steam engine had fired boiler atmospheric pressure, so just a 100 ° C: the depression in the condenser which was operating the engine

the steam engine were very vomumineuse, for low power because it turned very slowly

pourait we do much better Ajourd'hui via the same flow in small piston faster turn

I said in my message that this precedent steam engine has low efficiency would be useful only when very hot, so not often ... it could also be profitable, in summer with solar heat that is useless

the question is always the same, which is interested? who wants to invest money in this kind of thing?

for me a small steam engine at high temperatures with its independent home will be more economical to realize, and easier to instaler

[fredericponcet]

the question is always the same, which is interested? who wants to invest money in this kind of thing?

I am interested and I am willing to invest time and a few hundred euros.

If you give me advice, it will be free.

[Forhorse]

What I'm going to say may be silly; but with a delta of 90 ° C and if it is for "only" 50W, it wouldn't be easier to use Pelletier effect cells?
it certainly was a pathetic performance, certainly it would probably full board.
But it is almost indestructible right? And no development to

[fredericponcet]

What I'm going to say may be silly; but with a delta of 90 ° C and if it is for "only" 50W, it wouldn't be easier to use Pelletier effect cells?

That is to say ? Thermocouples?

If that's what I thought. It's expensive and above, it produces low voltage, hard to convert. But I seriously reflected.