Build its own hydraulic unit

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Exceed
I understand econologic
I understand econologic
posts: 190
Registration: 12/12/05, 15:16
Location: Thailand




by Exceed » 03/01/07, 19:45

André,

I must have the formula for calculating the value of condos ...
If you are interested....
For tonight, it may be right, tomorrow I'm away ... at the latest for Friday!

A + Serge.
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Respect !!!
CYRILR
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Registration: 01/01/07, 18:00
Location: Quebec




by CYRILR » 07/01/07, 05:56

Hello gentlemen,

Back after a few days of intimacy with a persistent microbe.
Thank you for all your comments, it gave me lots of ideas but I will have some reading to do :D

So to start:

@ André
I went to the Drummond generator site, I like the idea of ​​a generator on pto, it's robust. I will contact them once when it's time to shop. I presume that from them I should be able to find charge controller, frequency and load shedding panel.

For the turbine, in what I read so far it will be a Turgo with or without injectors because that is what seems recommended for my situation.

For the boat guys it's funny, my son-in-law is a sailing maniac :D he has a contact for his electrical equipment and I will see next week.

For the water intake, the ice and the chiard that comes with it, I'm going to plunge my water intake into the countercurrent zone of a big pit of the river. I plan to siphon 4 or 5 feet deep, that should solve the biggest part of the problem.

I'm considering +/- 7kw

I am at +/- 15-20 km from Montmorency Falls.

Hydro is 400m, feasible but expensive +/- 7 000 $ I was told. Anyway, I do not want to have them in the paws. So autonomous 100%.

For the regulation of the load, it is not won, I have work on this side there.

I made myself 2 scenarios.

Scenario 1: This turbine 24 / 24
I siphon 200l / s with one or more siphons (must I learn)
I have 5 meters of unevenness between the pit and the central
I send this in a pipeline (large diameter, small pressure) to the turbine, no injectors (it is poorly filtered and it can clog)
I endure the variations of level of the river (40m3 / s to 300m3 / s in 10 hours, infos obtained from the club of canoe-kayak of Ste-Brigitte) thus +/- 7 to 8 'of variation
No speed control valve, I'm not filtered so it may clog, so a transmission with automated gear.
I need to see the costs
Alternator + load management + 600v transformer and transport.
The house will be at +/- 300 m from the alternator.

Scenario 2: It will turn when necessary.
I do not siphon but I pump in a good water hole with a 3-4 'deep grate (in white water, no gel) with a mechanical pump immersed in the current the equivalent of 3-4kw,
I am at the end of the earth and I have 9 vertical meters with the power station at this place.
I send that 6 meters higher in a pond on my 2 th plateau at +/- 15 meters and the power plant.
I do my forced driving, small diameter-high pressure,
The water is cleaned in the pond and the flow is stabilized by a small automatic valve.
The turbine: small, injectors and high speed, no reduction
Alternator + load management + 600v transformer and transport.
The house is still at 300 m of the alternator : Cheesy:

Is it feasible? What is the cost of the pond vs. the flow management system vs. the risk of clogging or jamming the turbine? I do not know, have to see.



@Serge
From what I read about asynchronous, its weakness is that it is not able to provide overload power for starting large engines. I have a wood workshop (glider, shredder, table saw, etc.) and from here 2 years old I'm going to get a little wood mill, of course it's not working at the same time but it's engines from 2 to 3 hp.
Another thing stammers me with the asynchronous. To read your explanations on the changes to make the system viable in standalone production, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable enough to consider doing that. In fact it's not that I'm not comfortable, it's that I'm completely nil in electricity. : Lol:
So asynchronous, it may not be what I need.
I read that there are fully integrated synchronous systems with load shedding management and everything. It's more my style. Will have to see how much it costs ...

Your information will be very precious to me because I may be more stingy than you : Cheesy:


@ both,
Your discussions and your electrical plans, there you sent me in the field : Cry:
A big thank you for the time you took to answer me.

CYRIL
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Exceed
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Location: Thailand




by Exceed » 07/01/07, 08:32

Hello,

No problem....

You take your time ..... I did not know that you wanted to feed a workshop !!!
It's true that to manage the reagent, my technology is not the simplest (yet it can do it).
There are sets nearby with synchronous generator .... but there, I know less because it is not in my means!
Turgo ???? Oh well, I don't think so .... These are turbines suitable for low flow rates (<200L / s) and for high head (> 20m) .... otherwise pay attention to the efficiency !!!! Turgo or Pelton = same fight!

A + Serge.
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Respect !!!
Other
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by Other » 08/01/07, 04:46

Hello,

A first test (quickly) to make an assychronous generator

Single phase electric motor
1 / 2 hp
1725 rpm
9 amperes
115 volts
60hz

this engine is driven by my test bench 100% panton
125cc 3360 petrol engine rpm (measurement not specified)

with 1 14 Mf driver in parallel this does not start
with 2 capacitors from 14 Mf that generates 178 volts

generator output (or rather engine become generator)

Voltage 178 volts
Frequency 112hz
Amperage in capacitors 28 Mf 4,7 amperes
install a lamp charge of 60watts she burned imediately
install a lamp load of100w, the generator picks up,

For single-phase installations, I think it is different from three-phase, I will try to pass the load in series with capacitors, because putting a resistive load directly in parallel on the excitation capacitors we override the function of the capacitors .
Next test (as the balanced circuit in three phase I understand better why it added 3 other condesateur in series on the load)
just make reactive VA it forces the small engine 125cc,
(4,7 amps X178 volts) I think it would be easier to experiment with coupling 2 electric motors of the same RPM and we train one with the other which will generate. less noise, less smell of panton.

Andre
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Exceed
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by Exceed » 08/01/07, 08:57

Hi André,

A question ..... hp what is unity?

Otherwise, it's not surprising to easily convert a mono asynchronous motor into a generator? In sort, it is more stable anyway and it collapses less quickly .... well, I think.
You just have to have good condo value for simple regulation for small resistive load ... if you want more, you need an IGC regulator.
Me, it bluffs me every time!

A + Serge.
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Respect !!!
jonule
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by jonule » 08/01/07, 17:05

hello to you and good luck, I continue for my part my page:
http://www.nrjrealiste.fr/elec/production.html

the calculation of the capacitors is here:
http://www.nrjrealiste.fr/elec/condensa ... chrone.xls

from the page:
http://perso.orange.fr/ebonys/pagespeci ... rateur.htm

so in fact the charge regulator that you talk about exceed, it is stupid! it's like the shunt regulator in 12V, the surplus is redirected by relay ...

by the way, load shedding loads must take all 10kW if we do not use the current consumed? !!!
with connections in parallel that does not solve + simply?

what it would be is to know each time the value of power consumed it would be simple + ... but impossible in domestic use probably.

if we use 5kW we must derive 5kW otherwise ... what else? that chuaffe? does it sparkle? it explodes? that mud?
it damages the asynchronous generator (finally the engine what)?

and we can not charge batteries so much to do, for the surplus?
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Exceed
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posts: 190
Registration: 12/12/05, 15:16
Location: Thailand




by Exceed » 08/01/07, 17:41

Hi Jonule,

You say :

if we use 5kW we must derive 5kW otherwise ... what else? that chuaffe? does it sparkle? it explodes? that mud?
it damages the asynchronous generator (finally the engine what)?


Well, it's simple, in this case, we work at flow (water) constant.... therefore a flow calculated to get 10Kw out of the generator at maximum load ... without domestic consumption, we are obliged to have a set of resistors which will give a consumption of 10kw .... in the case where. ... Aie! Aie! Aie! .... you consume 5kw and that there is not the 5kw dissipated in the resistors ... the result is simply ..... runaway of all the bin's !!!! More regulation speed, voltage ... in a first time, the voltage will increase, the frequency increase accordingly ..... normally security tensions will be triggered (well, better), but the generator will run and certainly cramer ... more certainly mechanical damage to predict !!!!

So, it is absolutely necessary to provide security ... and the regulatory circuit of Jan Portejis normally controls all that ...
By cons, I do not believe, without being sure, that the command on the resistors is all or nothing (relay) ... perso, I think the order is proportional to the consumption via thyristors or triacs ... .

But I do not speak English despite my express request to Santa Claus !!!! We no longer trust anyone, today !!!! : Lol: : Lol: : Lol:

And that's why I need to understand everything in this damn doc!

Public chat http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/microhydro/
There is a lot of discussion and info but still in English! Grrr !!!
Why do not you have the same thing in French ????????? That's the question ?????

A + Serge.
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Respect !!!
Other
Pantone engine Researcher
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posts: 3787
Registration: 17/03/05, 02:35
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by Other » 08/01/07, 18:13

Hello
if we use 5kW we must derive 5kW otherwise ... what else? that chuaffe? does it sparkle? it explodes? that mud?
it damages the asynchronous generator (finally the engine what)?



whether cela is a synchronous or an asynchronous generator, the load will always influence the RPMs of the generator so on the frequency
As for the sycrhone, the one we are accustomed to seeing the voltage control is easier if there is a difference in frequency, or discharge it has its own voltage regulator on the exitation,
On the assychrone, if the RPMs increase the voltage too and the voltage also fluctuates with the load,
So the control of the flow of the water with the load becomes the same problem, that is why for the sake of simplicity it make a constant load with resistances delessages, one understands that water there is a and what pass in the turbine or what pass side does not change anything, so we use the power in a range is to heat domestic water or simple resitance to limit lost heat .. (as lost water in the case flow control)
Although even the dawn wheels of the old mill had a dam to control the flow, and I think that if our ancestors managed to control the flow it must not be difficult to do it in a simple way now.

Andre
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Woodcutter
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by Woodcutter » 08/01/07, 20:12

Exceed wrote:[...] A question ..... hp what is unity?
[...]
Personally, I would say "horsepower"who are the British cousins ​​of our horses ...
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Other
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by Other » 08/01/07, 22:31

Hello
another test on asynchronous generators
My installation is of low power for these 500watts experience
On a single-phase motor driven as a generator, it is enough simply to include capacitors in parallel, and this generates
A resistive load connected directly it does not work
A transformer collected at the output works well
I tested a battery charger and a small hair dryer motor, it works well
To use a resistive load it is necessary to pass the output by a capacitor it works, it remains for purists to adapt the capacitors to the cos of the installation, but it works without being too precise on the values.
So for small powers a few kw is not very complicated with a capacitor in series on the output.
For larger powers 10kw and more, a transformer output would rather be more, this allows to adapt the voltage like making 110 / 220 with a middle tap.

Andre
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