Wood boiler in summer for hydroaccumulation

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ulyssesourd
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Wood boiler in summer for hydroaccumulation




by ulyssesourd » 09/06/08, 14:07

Hello everyone

Besides me, who else among you uses the wood boiler to make hydro-accumulation for DHW in the off-season?

Does the smoke coming out not bother your neighbors, since they open the windows? Did you get their reviews? My neighbor said to himself that I must have a big problem of insulation because he believed that I still heated my house ...

Well with the rise in the price of fuel and the return of bad weather (NE of France) I do not think that solar is profitable given the high price of a complete installation ... and the bad weather that persists. .

So I have the last solution: burn wood for DHW.

I wonder if individuals who have a pellet boiler use it ALL year round? So why not do the same with a BUCHES boiler?

Because I calculated the investment of the solar heater: for example for an installation of 2500 €, to amortize it, I have to burn about 70 cubic meters and per year in summer I burn between 2 and 3 cubic meters on average out of 5 months (May - Sept), solar amortization is best done in 20 years ... without sun and around 10 years with mixed weather.

Not interesting ... for me ONLY if you have a wood boiler (logs, pellets, chips), but it can be advantageous if you produced hot water in electricity or fuel ...

I launch a notice to owners of a hydro balloon with A DHW BALLOON immersed in a water bath. As I am going to consider buying some, I would like to know the autonomy of DHW hot water, namely that the hydro tank is 800L with a submersible DHW tank of 200L connected in series to my current tank of 800L. If I heat all the hydro balloons to 90 ° C.

How many liters of hot water at 45-60 ° C can I get from it (WITHOUT HEATING) before I turn on my wood boiler when it drops to 45 ° C?

I believe :

800 + 600 = 1400L (600 car 800-200). 1400L from 90 ° C to 45 ° C = 70,47kW. Cold water inlet = 8 ° C Outlet = 45 ° C, 1L from 8 to 45 ° C therefore requires 41,4W so I can get 1700Litres at 45 ° C ... Or an autonomy of 8,5 days on average.

Is it correct?

Thank you

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ulyssesourd
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by ulyssesourd » 10/06/08, 13:14

Hi everybody!

If I am not answered, it is because I have found the answer to my question ...
So in terms of energy costs, it is this type of tank that comes out on top in front of all the other storage tanks ... even better than water heaters in heat pumps.

Regarding solar, the energy cost is equal to 0 but the investment is heavy and it requires the support of electricity or other in case of no sun ...

What about wood? It's simple with the DHW tank immersed in a Hydro tank: WHEN YOU are at home, you CAN put wood in the boiler (it takes 10 minutes to prepare and wait an hour or 2 to have hot water, it's not deadly ...), and in addition, in summer, very little wood per load ... + several days of autonomy ...
And when we are not there for a while, what is the use of keeping hot water?

And THE SOLAR? when we are not there, it is absolutely useless and most of us go on vacation for 3 or 4 weeks ... = loss because it heats up anyway when we don't need it and when the energy is there and this at a season when there is more sun ...!

What about GAS, Fuel Oil? Forget ... We must operate the entire boiler for hot water and even if we do not use ... pfff ...

And Electricity? it heats WHEN you use it ... But the price per kWh is high but I think that with the investment over 20 years, it does not cost more than a solar water heater.

AND the independent PAC water heater? Investment heavier than an electric balloon or DHW balloon immersed in a hydro balloon but the amortization is done in 10 or 15 years ...

And the spare parts? An Electric balloon can be changed easily and cheaply ... and have it if they are solar balloons or my type of balloon or ... gas or oil burners ...

So the best is ...?

For me the best is to consume what we need so it's to have a ball that we use it at 0% or 100% ALL YEAR without LOSING energy (GAS, OIL) or LEAVE to escape an energy (SOLAR) WHEN absent and WITHOUT COMPLEMENT (SOLAR) AND RESPECTING THE ECOLOGY

So it is DHW tanks immersed in a HYDRO BALLOON (WOOD only) which comes first, followed by the solar water heater and independent PAC water heater then the water heaters by gas oil boilers or electric balloons ...

And you agree with what I think?
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by dirk pitt » 10/06/08, 15:12

so personal, I have a pellet boiler and a 150L flask with boiler coil + electrical resistance
I stop the boiler in summer and I heat the balloon with electricity.
I made measurements and if we place ourselves on the energy plan, it makes more sense to heat with electricity because the energy expenditure is just the necessary to heat the water consumed (+ the losses water heater) while qu 'with the boiler, keep the entire boiler circuit hot + the boiler losses + the circuit losses (I'm not talking about the electrical energy of the boiler)
as the price of the kwh pellet is a little lower than that of off-peak electricity, it is still slightly in favor of the electric also on the plan of the money carrier. With the log which is less expensive, it is surely in favor of the logs (on the money-holder plan because on the energy plan it is worse)
I do not comment on the waste and / or CO2 aspect to produce electricity.
on the other hand I am trying to reproduce on the electric a very interesting functionality of my boiler. instead of heating the DHW to 65 ° C for bacteriological reasons, (in addition we can burn and we mix it with cold water or water superconso) my boiler heats the water to 50 ° C (good enough) then bring it back up to 65 ° C only once a week for 12 hours to kill the bacteria. ingenious !!
I calculated that by doing the same thing on an electric water heater all year round, the saving is around 50 €
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by ulyssesourd » 10/06/08, 15:21

hello drik,
Do you have a separate DHW tank? Have you thought about taking a hydro tank with a DHW tank immersed in it, that you will heat it once a week with the pellets, isn't it better than heating your tank with electricity?
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by dirk pitt » 10/06/08, 17:47

no, it's not better, it's worse. Do not believe that it is because we will heat only once a week that we will spend less energy.
The ONLY interest of the buffer tank as its name suggests, is to be an energy accumulation buffer when the starting energy is intermittent and the need continues.
this is the case for a log boiler where the fire is generally not continuous. this is the case of solar (because the sun is not always present)
other than that, it has only disadvantages: the price, the size, the caloric losses
if we have a modular and continuous production (this is the case for granules, the buffer is useless.
when compared to heating the DHW with pellets or electric in the summer, I set out the facts above. I repeat, it is out of dogmatic context on the good or the bad of nuclear electricity or not.
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by chatelot16 » 10/06/08, 20:06

an interesting solution to heat water when there is no longer any need for heating is to put a very small boiler just for that

I am transforming an old fuel oil boiler in cast iron into a wood boiler by lining the bottom of the fireplace with bricks: to have good combustion even with a small fire
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by ulyssesourd » 11/06/08, 11:27

Hi Chatelot16!
Ah great as an idea, I also have a fuel oil boiler in cast iron that I want to transfer but I did not think that it is possible to transform it into a wood boiler ... I will therefore study this possibility ...

@Dirk
I don't think it's worse ...

The best is to operate a BOILER at BOTTOM and for a long time THAT to operate in a short time and often ...
Because the boiler must be kept at temperature (too many variations in the water temperature in the body of the boiler = losses and corrosion) OR allow the boiler to cool and use it for hydro accumulation (= operation of the boiler more long = economy and it is better for the health of the boiler).
It's my vision.
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by dirk pitt » 11/06/08, 14:53

@chatelot,
we agree from the point of view of the boiler, it is better to operate it for a long time and at its nominal output (ie close to the maximum power)
what I pointed out is that it is not suitable when the need is a low power like DHW (6 to 8 kwh / day) while the boiler provides a big power.
in this case, we actually need an accumulation buffer between the two and the energy balance is bad.
The buffer tank is not a great thing that saves energy, it is a palliative when the heat production and the need are not in phase or else are of too different powers.
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by ulyssesourd » 11/06/08, 15:23

@drik
Sorry, I do not entirely agree: if you have a storage tank of +/- 800L WITH a DHW tank of +/- 200L immersed in it, the boiler heats the entire tank to 90 ° C,
You will have an autonomy of 7 to 8 days if you consume 200L per day ... So your boiler will run once a week for 3-4 HOURS. And the price of pellets is lower than electricity ... In addition it is greener than electricity ...
See the following diagram, you can see that in Germany they put a buffer tank with a DHW tank immersed in it ...
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ulyssesourd
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by ulyssesourd » 11/06/08, 15:25

Sorry, I do not entirely agree: if you have a storage tank of +/- 800L WITH a DHW tank of +/- 200L immersed in it, the boiler heats the entire tank to 90 ° C,
You will have an autonomy of 7 to 8 days if you consume 200L per day ... So your boiler will run once a week for 3-4 HOURS. And the price of pellets is lower than electricity ... In addition it is greener than electricity ...
See the following diagram, you can see that in Germany they put a buffer tank with a DHW tank immersed in it ... Solar optional ...

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