exclusive DHW heating from a pellet stove

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Philippe BRUNO
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exclusive DHW heating from a pellet stove




by Philippe BRUNO » 26/03/11, 18:34

Hello,

I am building a low consumption house of 140 m2 without central heating, Canadian well, double flow ventilation.
A pellet stove will be used primarily as auxiliary heating.
I would like to know if it is possible to obtain DHW (cumulus of 300 liters) in addition to solar collectors from the stove.
The boilers I have seen give priority to hot water: no interest for me, I wish the opposite.
A supplier advised against this assembly. He may not have had the necessary equipment.
Anyone have a solution. (maybe a heat exchanger on the chimney flue connected to an expansion tank?)

Philippe BRUNO
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Philippe Schutt
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by Philippe Schutt » 26/03/11, 19:26

This type of stove does not exist.
The water should not boil, you should accept stopping the stove even if the house is cold.
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 27/03/11, 03:31

Canadian well, double flow ventilation.

If the Canadian well is well dimensioned for the winter, that is to say rather deep and not too cooled at the end of winter by the cold outside air which passed there to heat itself in the ground of the well, it is worth the trouble to heat it in summer with solar thermal collectors, to keep the excess heat in summer found in winter, as best done collectively on the site to read carefully:
http://www.dlsc.ca/DLSC_Brochure_f.pdf
http://www.dlsc.ca

This method of storing summer heat underground to use it in winter, so well sized, makes it possible to virtually eliminate heating and to no longer consume fossil fuels, neither wood, nor nuclear, in electric heating. , nor to release CO2 and other pollution, with a perpetual system.

It is frightening that this effective solution is completely ignored in France, even stifled!


It is an effective method to reduce our waste of energy, excess CO2, nuclear risks, by eliminating nuclear power plants used for electric heating, and replacing them with this system.
It is frightening to hear repeated on the news that we can not do without nuclear power plants when this simple system can dramatically reduce the need for oil, gas and nuclear to heat almost zero !!

We will not understand in France until we have a nuclear disaster like in Chernobyl or in Japan sooner or later, because nuclear men are not infallible in perpetuity !!


Otherwise for:
(maybe a heat exchanger on the chimney flue connected to an expansion tank?)

Cannot work with a pellet stove with good efficiency because the fumes that come out are too cold to heat, unlike a log stove with poor performance.


Otherwise to change the priority DHW heating, it is possible to deceive the stove by adding a voltage to the T sensor of the DHW tank which makes the stove believe that the tank is already hot, as long as the house is not hot enough !!

In general, priority is given to DHW because it does not represent a lot of energy and therefore it occupies the stove only a small proportion of the time.

This is especially true in conventional homes with high heat losses, but less so in homes with low consumption.

But by deceiving the stove on the hot ball signal sensor, it is possible to change the priority with a fairly simple assembly to assemble yourself, but not commercial (some relays).
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by Philippe Schutt » 27/03/11, 09:17

Dédé, what you recommend implies a central heating circuit, which Bruno does not want. What he wants, at least from what I understand, is a stove that heats the air, but could also heat water from time to time.

If there is a radiator circuit, you can give the priority you want. It is enough to clearly set the distribution laws to know which circuit to wire.
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by Philippe BRUNO » 27/03/11, 10:20

To answer dedeleco, I know the principle which consists in storing heat in summer to restore it in winters. At the time, end of the 70s (of the XXth century: time flies) the storage consisted of a water circuit (solar) passing between large stones under the house. Having never heard of it again, I thought that this system was not efficient enough. I see that it has been greatly improved. Unfortunately the house is too advanced and all the earthworks being done, I will not have the financial means to apply this solution.
For me, in fact, the pellet stove is only an auxiliary heater which normally should only turn very little (except this winter ....).
At the start of the design of the house, the back-up of DHW was done with electricity. not being satisfied with this solution, I looked for something else and I thought that I could perhaps use this stove to replace the electricity, even if it means overheating the house a little.
I believe that I will stay on electricity unless another solution is proposed to me.
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by dedeleco » 27/03/11, 15:11

It is staggering that our current professional heating system is forcing customers like you, very motivated to pay for an ecological house as much as possible, towards electricity, as completely inevitable !!!
I find it unacceptable in addition to being told that it is impossible to get out of nuclear power, when we are all forced to use electricity.

To get out of it they must become very imaginative and determined to innovate and adapt what exists.

An air and water stove for DHW (partial exchanger) can heat the house with air as a priority and heat domestic hot water in secondary.
Indeed if the balloon is hot, it will heat the house and therefore it is enough to make him believe that the balloon is hot.

A water stove intended to heat the DHW and the house with only hot water, can heat the house with air if, in an insulated trunk, one or more radiators of sufficient surface is used as an exchanger to heat the air circulating in the house with double flow ventilation.
The thermal regulation is unchanged with the thermostat at the level of the air on the radiator which stops the stove as if it were a radiator in the house.

I think we have to resist our crazy nuclear lobby industrial system, catastrophic endless in Japan (we will have to enlarge the exclusion zone by 35Km, given the measures, in the news, measures hidden from the Japanese) which pushes us towards force electricity, innovating yourself a bit.

In this system you can keep the heating resistance of the ball, which you will only use if the stove does not work.

Finally, if your Canadian well is well done (depth, length and volume of soil), later it can be used and improved, by sending very hot air in summer from solar air thermal collectors, to heat it up strongly in summer and regain that heat in winter at well over 20 ° C, over a period which depends on its size and depth?

To see what is being done, Canadian wells are often undersized, and not expensive, just to sell electric heat pumps which in fact accept very cold air at a temperature below 0 ° C if the cold lasts , with an overcooled Canadian well.
The size required does not depend on the presence or not of heat storage in summer, because a Canadian well is not geothermal energy (typical lie with misleading terms) but poorly made storage of natural summer heat which penetrates the ground to prevent it from freezing in winter, and which gives an annual average at more than 3m deep.

We must strongly resist, especially on new houses, this nuclear lobby which systematically traps people by pushing them with nuclear power by force with professionals conditioned towards these absurd solutions, as the Japanese are seeing at the moment, with a radioactive exclusion zone which will have to exceed 35Km in diameter, with power stations which escape endless control, and a brutal lack of electricity which will block them very strongly, industrially and in particular this summer with the air conditioners of which they will have to happen.

Also I notice that your current system can be improved, as you wish, if you provide enough space for a water air radiator exchanger connected to your double flow air circulation with the hot water coming from your DHW stove.

Furthermore any Canadian well can later become a summer-to-winter storage if desired, with a performance linked to its size, often insufficient.

Finally try to have the maximum area of ​​solar thermal collectors or at least have planned the possibility of adding them in the future easily.

The sensors for DHW at higher T (more than 60 ° C) are not the same as for solar heating of the air coming from the Canadian well and which then enters the double flow circulation which is enough with 20 to 30 ° C warm air in winter. Very simple solar collectors in summer can strongly preheat the Canadian well with this hot air circulating in the opposite direction.
With enough space, in winter it is almost enough to heat the house.
All of this can be done later to improve the Canadian well, with even removable summer solar collectors outside the roof in the garden.

So my main point is that if you plan enough space at the moment, in a heat exchanger box on double flow and ducts, on the surface of possible additional solar air collectors, you will be able to improve your current installation so that it remains at the level of the latest future improvements to be made in future years.
Otherwise you will regret not having planned, deceived and trapped by pros, as 10 years ago and more the pros advised all-electric heating with insulation that has become totally insufficient today.

Finally, I invite you to learn all about abroad (internet, various links on econology that I have put) on possible future solutions because most of the pros ignore them and it is the future that works to get us out of the energy, CO2, pollution and nuclear crisis for all heating.
In France, deceived, we refuse to watch them.
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by Philippe Schutt » 27/03/11, 15:33

dedeleco wrote:An air and water stove for DHW (partial exchanger) can heat the house with air as a priority and heat domestic hot water in secondary.
Indeed if the balloon is hot, it will heat the house and therefore it is enough to make him believe that the balloon is hot.

As said this stove does not exist.
dedeleco wrote:A water stove intended to heat the DHW and the house with only hot water, can heat the house with air if, in an insulated trunk, one or more radiators of sufficient surface is used as an exchanger to heat the air circulating in the house with double flow ventilation.

that on the other hand, it is perfectly feasible with the existing material. a hydro stove supplying an electric convector fitted in series on the hot outlet of the dual-flow VMC exchanger. nothing but standard!
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by dedeleco » 27/03/11, 16:27

P. Schutt informs:
dedeleco wrote:
An air and water stove for DHW (partial exchanger) can heat the house with air as a priority and heat domestic hot water in secondary.
Indeed if the balloon is hot, it will heat the house and therefore it is enough to make him believe that the balloon is hot.


As said this stove does not exist.
dedeleco wrote:
A water stove intended to heat the DHW and the house with only hot water, can heat the house with air if, in an insulated trunk, one or more radiators of sufficient surface is used as an exchanger to heat the air circulating in the house with double flow ventilation.


that on the other hand, it is perfectly feasible with the existing material. a hydro stove supplying an electric convector fitted in series on the hot outlet of the dual-flow VMC exchanger. nothing but standard!


and therefore once fitted with the water air exchanger electro-convector, which does not exist, exists practically in two parts and DHW water tank with priority controllable by three-way valve and switch on probe which makes believe that it is hot, if necessary to change the priorities !!
!!!
The solution is in sight.

If you are in Alsace go to see P Schutt.
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Philippe BRUNO
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by Philippe BRUNO » 27/03/11, 16:45

A small point on my construction: it is designed to be largely self-sufficient. I want to avoid depending as much as possible on external suppliers.
Following very big problems with companies, I had to stay in a caravan without electricity or heating (I am currently renting because it is impossible to live there for the winter).
I installed a solar panel there with two batteries which allowed me to live in real life with solar energy.
Conclusion: it is possible to live in complete energy self-sufficiency on the condition of solving the problem of domestic hot water in winter and cooking all year round. In addition I have a generator (yes, I know) for punctual or exceptional situations.
Having passed the sixties, I do not know how I will be in a few years, so no heating with wood (I have known this for several years). For the kitchen, a pellet stove is not possible for reasons of design of the house, so it will certainly be gas but .... to see.

This is the reason why I am looking for a solution for my domestic hot water.
Your last messages opened a door for me which I will study: I ​​think that the solution is there.

Thanks to dedeleco and Philippe Schutt.
If you have other ideas, no problem.
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by Ahmed » 27/03/11, 21:00

If I understood correctly (and this may help others to better understand), it is not possible to have direct heating of the ambient air simultaneously with the production of domestic hot water (because use discontinuous).

The proposed solution is therefore to add to the original direct heating, a heating of a water which would be directed primarily towards the DHW, according to the needs, and if not towards a convector water / air.
Ingenious assembly which could allow to heat (via the convector) a distant room or requiring a higher average temperature: I think, in particular, of the bathroom; suddenly, two problems would be solved!
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