Geothermal installation on water table in 2013?

[raymon]

Of course all this implies that we do not heat at night (which I do my programmer cuts at 23 p.m.) or that we lower the temperature sharply. A modern air conditioning is equipped with a detector which automatically lowers the temperature by 2 ° when there is no one in the room.

On the link I gave there is also the number of frost days:
11 at my 7 in the west. and the number of days without a thaw0,1 at home and 0,5 in the west so not frequent.

At -7 ° the cop is weaker on the order of 2 instead of 4 -5 but there is wood!

To summarize air conditioning, a good trick provided you know how to use it, install ENR and not live in the Doubs.

[danielj]

A question, for the existing well found near your house, what are its characteristics? I was thinking of an old classic well from the rural world: 1 meter in diameter. and 10 meters deep (100l / h is already a lot). Well, if it's a geothermal well done on purpose, we can have higher flow rates, of course (with luck anyway). Five cubic meter an hour permanently, it's huge, are you sure what you're announcing?

@Cortejuan : if I understood everything correctly, the heat is taken in the drilling water, which leaves in my region at 13 ° C and which emerges from the heat exchanger at around 9 ° C, i.e. a delta T of 4 ° vs. With this heat, the heat pump is capable of producing hot water at 60 ° C max with an electrical back-up.

Isn't that the principle of any CAP?

@DanielJ : but then NO geothermal installation on groundwater is working in France then? And if I follow your reasoning correctly (delta T> 7 °), that doesn't work in Sweden either? Or else I didn't understand anything about your demonstration. But how can I explain the 250 clients of my supplier who are prospected only in Bordeaux and its region, all installed in water-water heat pumps on groundwater ??? There I do not understand ...

@Ahmed : for the flow rate, according to my simple calculations with a 200 liter container, the flow rate of my pump is greater than 5 m3 / h. If I haven't forgotten my math lessons, that's 5000 liters an hour, right? If I follow the calculations of DanielJ, for a delta T of 4, we would need a flow of 3 or 4 m3, so its pass?

Or do we not live in the same region?

[raymon]

When we are near a river we easily have significant flow 10 to 50m3 are frequent especially if the water is reinjected not very far. By pumping regularly in a well the flow increases because the well is cleaned, the water veins are cleaned. It may not be wise to run a well with a heat pump for ten hours to properly empty and clean it.

[danielj]

Hello, our posts intersect, it complicates a bit ...
When I speak of 7 ° C (approximately), it is not a physical constant! This is what emerges from an average of my studies of docs (very hidden) from pac manufacturer ... For an exchanger to remove (or extract) a few calories, there must be a TEMPERATURE DIFFERENCE {see Principle of thermodynamics: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Premier_pr ... odynamique}: "
This heat transfer, called heat, takes place from the hottest system to the coldest. The one whose particles are statistically the most agitated, will transmit its thermal agitation at the discretion of more or less energetic shocks, to the external environment or to the system statistically the least agitated, that is to say the coldest. This intuitive observation is formalized by the second principle of thermodynamics. "

In domestic pac systems, we see that for it to work, 7 ° C (+ -) is necessary (it is the sizing of the machines that requires it), So if your source of calories is less than 7 ° C (+ -), the pac will regulate to have this temperature difference, so it will cool below zero: therefore risk of freezing. Remember that the fluid (pacs can easily drop to minus 25 ° C). If you have enough flow, which is very difficult to have, (see my calculation of 17-12-2013) it may not freeze, but the performance of the cap and the cop will drop to be worse than 'a simple electric heater !!!!!!!

I remind you that the COP determining to justify the often very expensive investment of pacs, OR, this COP varies with the temperature differences. In addition, it is (practically) not possible to measure it at home in operation.

This is where the merchants play on nothing to rip you off ... The merchant will show you the maximum COPs of the machines, test carried out in the laboratory under very favorable conditions, and extravagant, for example, test carried out at exchanger temperature at 25 ° C and internal temperature at 25 ° C !!! When it is not the theoretical COP calculated without the inevitable losses .... The COP falls to one (+ -) for temperature delta of 7-8 ° C. (When the COP falls to one, I remind you that the overall efficiency becomes identical to a simple electric heater) And it is not written in the doc of your heat pump, no, no ...

I'm not saying that PACs don't work, I'm saying be careful, the gain touted by sellers and hoped for by buyers has not (never?) Been achieved.

It is often (always?) Better to improve the insulation of your home, that's durable and not too expensive ...
Hi everybody.

danielj did not understand everything

any heat pump has a cop which varies depending on the difference between hot and cold temperature

with a well if the flow is sufficient we always have the same cold temperature: it is much better than an air heat pump, which has a cold temperature too cold when it is cold, which decreases the COP on days or we need it the most

where does this 7 ° temperature drop in the exchanger come from? when the well gives a sufficient flow we can have a lower temperature loss

the air heat pump also has a temperature drop in the air sensor, and even stronger than the water water heat pump

I find it a pity that the water water heat pump is so expensive

how deep is the well? it is when the drilling is deep that the flow is reduced so as not to spend too much power on pumping but when the depth is reasonable you should not hesitate to put a large flow

[danielj]

Yes, near a river it works, but few are concerned, on the other hand the temperature of the river goes down a lot in winter. I live on a beautiful river, the temperature is often 10 ° C, and sometimes the whole river freezes! I also have an agricultural well, even pumping often, I have been using it continuously for 10 years, the flow is limited, it varies according to the seasons, moreover. For my well, it is around 100 l / h in the spring (favorable period).
A+

When we are near a river we easily have significant flow 10 to 50m3 are frequent especially if the water is reinjected not very far. By pumping regularly in a well the flow increases because the well is cleaned, the water veins are cleaned. It may not be wise to run a well with a heat pump for ten hours to properly empty and clean it.

[raymon]

The other solution is that, but neither is it:

http://www.geothermie-perspectives.fr/0 ... ma-maison/

[danielj]

uh, no, I studied that too, and I read many testimonials from dissatisfied users ... The soil around the buried pipes ended up freezing, hence blocking heat exchange, hence either stop of the heat pump, ie catastrophic COP ... cop <1 resulting in more energy absorbed than returned! Very expensive scam in addition ...

The other solution is that, but neither is it:

http://www.geothermie-perspectives.fr/0 ... ma-maison/

[Ahmed]

Very expensive scam in addition ...

It is the founding principle of scams, to be very expensive ...
It is to be linked to that of the communicating vessels.

[chatelot16]

in this subject it is a matter of groundwater: nothing to do with geothermal energy by pipes buried under the ground which risks cooling in winter

on a water table if the flow is sufficient the temperature is almost constant, therefore usable in very cold weather

[danielj]

A previous post was an aside on a geothermal pac, I simply replied ...

For the cap on groundwater, it is often the flow that is lacking, with some exceptions!
See previous posts.
salutations to all

in this subject it is a matter of groundwater: nothing to do with geothermal energy by pipes buried under the ground which risks cooling in winter

on a water table if the flow is sufficient the temperature is almost constant, therefore usable in very cold weather