Thermal Energy Seas, an energy of unknown future!

Renewable energies except solar electric or thermal (seeforums dedicated below): wind turbines, energy from the sea, hydraulic and hydroelectricity, biomass, biogas, deep geothermal energy ...
dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 15/08/10, 14:10

Funny Christophe wrote:
dedeleco wrote:
this cold water 4 ° C deep, at least a thousand years old, is replaced by hot water.

Another annerie, is it a mania to criticize before getting information from the green or what? The heated cold water is not "reinjected" in depth, it has no technological interest.


The stupidity is that which too quickly does not think enough (note the spelling of the annery, and the corrector of econology works well, him) !!
When we pump deep water at 4 ° C, without believing to replace it, even if it is not reinjected, it is really replaced by the flow at the bottom of the ocean by Archimedes, (otherwise we would make a hole with a vacuum at the bottom of the ocean and it would take much, much more energy to pump, 100bars at 1000m deep !!) which comes down to reinject surface water by slightly accelerating the circulation of surface water towards the bottom of the oceans all over the planet !!!

The good remark would be to notice that the cold energy from the bottom of the oceans is enormous (1000 years of Guf Stream and thousands of meters of water thickness at 4 ° C at the bottom of the oceans) and therefore as long as we take little , the effect remains weak.
This inertia of the oceans slows global warming, which would happen quickly in a few years instead of a thousand years !!
Unfortunately this remark of small levy is false, with 6 billion men, who take all the riches of the earth, which are not eternal, CO2, by burning O2, oil, metals, etc .. !!
If the Gulf Stream stops, it would be a good way to restart it !! (with 6 billion men pumping this water from the depths in hot regions, like shadoks) !!!

Claude was a good physicist as explained by chatelot 16 !!
!
His maximum efficiency machine could be used to make a heat pump without electricity, using the energy of the small temperature difference between the warm earth and the cold outside in winter, in a Canadian well ???? !!!

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Finally, I am not as green as that, but objective, noting the indisputable reality. and I am not sure that CO2 explains the current warming, for example, because it occurred 125000 years ago without CO2 !!.
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 15/08/10, 15:43

this way of making a steam engine at low temperature therefore very low pressure, is interesting for the sea because it is already water and that avoids the exchanger

but to exploit other small temperature differences where there is not naturally a large volume of water, it is better to use the best possible thermal fluid like a fridge or a heat pump: R290 = propane
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by sen-no-sen » 15/08/10, 22:03

The use of deep water is a real business in Japan, desalinated water is sold 3 or 4 times the price of conventional spring water.

There is also the abstraction of freshwater sources underwater which could present solutions in areas lacking water.

Cooling devices (air conditioning for large buildings) from deep water are used, especially in Canada.
The bottom of the sea has a lot of possibilities in store for us!

Both ETM and ECM (kinetic energy of the seas) have no doubt about the future.
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"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
ToTo00
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by ToTo00 » 02/12/10, 11:54

Hello,

if you seek to make energy savings or other savings (solar ... etc) I find lees for you.

hold ! thank you
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by Petrus » 25/04/11, 02:08

Very interesting, I didn't know that such small temperature differences could be exploited effectively.
I only knew Stirling engines, but they are not very efficient at low temperatures.

Anyone know the efficiency and volume required of an ETM type machine compared to a stirling engine?

It would be great if the principle could be used with solar thermal panels.
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by moinsdewatt » 11/07/14, 20:29

Ah, finally in a major project on the subject. :P

10.7 MW net. (I suppose that is once the electrical power of the pumping units has been deducted)
Project at 300 million €, which is extremely expensive per MW.

Towards an industrial sector of marine thermal energy


July 10, 2014 enerzine

After a 12-month audit, the NEMO "New Energy for Martinique and Overseas" ETM floating power plant project has just been named the winner of the NER 300 program by the European Commission.

Confirmation from the European fund NER 300 for the allocation of funding covering the first five years of operation of the plant was received on July 8 by Akuo Energy, developer of the project. As an industrial partner of the project, DCNS remains the supplier of this innovative technology.

DCNS and Akuo Energy have been working for several years with the Martinique Region to define the possibilities and conditions for setting up a pilot thermal energy plant for the seas capable of supplying 35.000 homes.

Together, the two entities will develop a 2 MW offshore ETM plant which will be operational in four years. This floating platform anchored at sea will exploit the temperature difference between hot surface water and cold water from the depths to produce non-intermittent and decarbonized electricity without any uncertainty on the resource (access, availability, cost).

The Martinique Region very early on set in motion a dynamic aimed at developing thermal energy for the seas on its territory. Indeed, the location of the island on the tropical belt makes it one of the most promising areas in the world for the exploitation of this non-intermittent renewable energy and the development of this technology very respectful of the environment.

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After an audit by the European Investment Bank of this 300 million euro project, the designation as winner receives a grant of 72 million euros.
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in full: http://www.enerzine.com/7/17498+vers-un ... mers+.html
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chatelot16
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by chatelot16 » 11/07/14, 21:38

this is not a new system: it was achieved almost a century ago by gorges claude in cuba

his thermal machine simply used water and steam

water can boil at sea water temperature thanks to very low pressure: almost under vacuum

the advantage of using water and its steam directly was to avoid the heat exchanger because given the small temperature difference you don't have to lose a lot to lose everything

its installation worked and did the expected power but did not work for a long time for maintenance problems

the sites where it works are quite rare because you have to have a deep sea right next to the coast

if it is necessary to install the machine in the middle of an ocean to have depth it is too far from the coast to transmit electricity in a profitable way

the exploitation of low temperature difference by thermal machine can also be done on land with solar heat: I seriously think about it ... but not with a junk used for that and which would not be profitable: with a mixed machine used as a heat pump to heat the house in winter, or a heat engine to make electricity with the heat of the sun when there is nothing else to do
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by chatelot16 » 12/07/14, 00:10

I did not see that it was the 4th page excuse me for the unnecessary repetition
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Remundo
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by Remundo » 12/07/14, 00:14

I was a little lazy looking for the thermodynamic process for this project ... It would be a very low pressure water-based Rankine?

Otherwise, the Stirlings would be very interesting, and precisely reversible in a heat pump.

The price is high, but it is prototype / experimentation.
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by moinsdewatt » 12/07/14, 13:57

Remundo wrote:I was a little lazy looking for the thermodynamic process for this project ... It would be a very low pressure water-based Rankine?

Otherwise, the Stirlings would be very interesting, and precisely reversible in a heat pump.

......


I searched a little, in vain.

Even in the pdf of 2 pages of the project it is not mentioned.
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