Interesting...
With Stirling at very low deltaT
Pumping engineering is also another technical issue ...
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I took along the way, they didn't mention the "conversion" but I assume it is similar to that shown in the articles at the beginning of the topic via refrigerated gas (ammonia).
But maybe there are other technologies? Search the OTEC site, but the possibilities are still slim because the delta is really low: 20 ° C at most ...
On the other hand, they mentioned the re-use of cold water pumped at 700-800m for different applications. This water is interesting because of its low T ° (air conditioning on tropical islands) and the chemical purity of this water (it is a water that has not seen the sun for several millennia and has not (yet ) undergoes human pollution) ... which apparently interests fish farming a lot ... and scientists ...
But maybe there are other technologies? Search the OTEC site, but the possibilities are still slim because the delta is really low: 20 ° C at most ...
On the other hand, they mentioned the re-use of cold water pumped at 700-800m for different applications. This water is interesting because of its low T ° (air conditioning on tropical islands) and the chemical purity of this water (it is a water that has not seen the sun for several millennia and has not (yet ) undergoes human pollution) ... which apparently interests fish farming a lot ... and scientists ...
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Christophe wrote:
On the other hand, they mentioned the re-use of cold water pumped at 700-800m for different applications. This water is interesting because of its low T ° (air conditioning on tropical islands) and the chemical purity of this water (it is a water that has not seen the sun for several millennia and has not (yet ) undergoes human pollution) ... which apparently interests fish farming a lot ... and scientists ...
The deep waters are not static (moreover if it were the case they would be depleted so much in oxygen that the abyssal life would be impossible) but move like an immense river while going up generally (except in the case of "el nino" ) on the east side of the Pacific, in the southern hemisphere at least (I do not know from memory the details of the complete circulation of the Pacific), so to think that the water of the bottom is purer because unaffected for millennia " is quite illusory ... in the Atlantic it is the same but a little more directive with the gulf stream which returns towards the South through the depths ...)
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this energy is not new: claude gorge spent all his personal fortune there to build a factory in cuba! I do not doubt his competence in thermal engineering, given the successes he obtained for air liquefaction and his invention on the dissolution of acetylene
but alas his factory in cuba worked well but was not profitable and was dismantled
but alas his factory in cuba worked well but was not profitable and was dismantled
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Of course, like in Hawaii during the 80s (we store everything in drawers) but it does not surprise me ...
But what is profitability when we talk about preserving resources and the climate? What is included in the price of the oil king? The pollution, the deaths of the oil wars ... etc etc ... What nay! So when we talk about profitability, we should think about taking everything into account ...
Going to the moon was it profitable on what point of view? Yet we did it ...
We had made a subject about this a few years ago: https://www.econologie.com/forums/c-est-quoi ... t4916.html
But what is profitability when we talk about preserving resources and the climate? What is included in the price of the oil king? The pollution, the deaths of the oil wars ... etc etc ... What nay! So when we talk about profitability, we should think about taking everything into account ...
Going to the moon was it profitable on what point of view? Yet we did it ...
We had made a subject about this a few years ago: https://www.econologie.com/forums/c-est-quoi ... t4916.html
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It lacks the study, which should be compulsory, to study the changes (biological, micro-climatic etc ...) which will be induced by this massive pumping of deep water. According to the good principle, first we do business and then come what may ... and if necessary we will paint everything green
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Reason is the madness of the strongest. The reason for the less strong it is madness.
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
[Eugène Ionesco]
http://www.editions-harmattan.fr/index. ... te&no=4132
this cold water 4 ° C deep, at least a thousand years old, is replaced by hot water.
So we heat the deep ocean floor, memory of the last glaciation and if we heat too much (a few degrees), we risk degassing the huge frozen methane reserves with water at the bottom of the ocean, (clatharates), and then huge bubbles of methane will rise in the atmosphere and warm the planet, and melt the poles, stop the gulf stream, raise the level of smers by 80m, and bring us back to the situation there are more 30 to 55 million years without ice at the poles, sea bottom at 15 ° C and poles hot, at 10 ° C.
Maximum disaster !! in a few millennia !!
So we heat the deep ocean floor, memory of the last glaciation and if we heat too much (a few degrees), we risk degassing the huge frozen methane reserves with water at the bottom of the ocean, (clatharates), and then huge bubbles of methane will rise in the atmosphere and warm the planet, and melt the poles, stop the gulf stream, raise the level of smers by 80m, and bring us back to the situation there are more 30 to 55 million years without ice at the poles, sea bottom at 15 ° C and poles hot, at 10 ° C.
Maximum disaster !! in a few millennia !!
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Christophe wrote:So what? In what this is incompatible with what has been said it is enough that the cycle of the deep currents lasts several thousand years ... In addition, there are no bottom currents everywhere ...
Not thousands of years !!!, only a few years: for the Gulf stream it is ~ 8km / h day in the middle of the ocean, or 2920km / year ... But at the exit of the Gulf of Mexico c it is at 100km / day that it tumbles, and it is the cold and deep current of the Labrador (35km / d) which then brakes it at 8km / day ...
The thermohaline circulation which circles the globe (from the Pacific to the Atlantic and back, has a cycle of 500 years ...
Admittedly, at the bottom of the ocean trenches (under 5000m) the circulation is extremely slow, but that represents relatively little in volume ...
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dedeleco wrote:this cold water 4 ° C deep, at least a thousand years old, is replaced by hot water.
Another annerie, it is a mania to criticize before finding out from the green or what? The heated cold water is not "reinjected" in depth, this has no technological interest.
It is used as a by-product of the ETM plant as I said above ...
ps: oiseautempete there are currents that take thousands of years to cycle ... but you probably prefer that we continue 100% on nuclear ??? Anyway, it's not really the debate, is it?
Last edited by Christophe the 15 / 08 / 10, 12: 22, 1 edited once.
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Remundo wrote:Interesting...
With Stirling at very low deltaT
Pumping engineering is also another technical issue ...
@+
stirling is not the right method: it gives a yield quite far from the theoretical maximum of carnot which is already very low given the small temperature difference
the claude system used water directly as a thermal fluid: evaporation of hot surface water at very low pressure, and condensation of this vapor by mixing with cold water coming from the bottom, a large turbine exploits the pressure difference between evaporation and condensation
it obtained a yield very close to the maximum of carnot, without exchanger of large surface which would have been too expensive
on another forum that someone has scanned an old science and life where all this is well detailed ... I must find it
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