Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?

Oil, gas, coal, nuclear (PWR, EPR, hot fusion, ITER), gas and coal thermal power plants, cogeneration, tri-generation. Peakoil, depletion, economics, technologies and geopolitical strategies. Prices, pollution, economic and social costs ...
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12274
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2930

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Ahmed » 13/11/21, 15:31

When Sen-no-sen writing:
To say that capitalism generates monsters seems to me to be a very poor analysis.

It is also necessary to understand that, beyond the positive aspects (compared to previous alienations), capitalism also supposes the economic inequality * which it however claims to resolve progressively (which is obviously not observed) and the societal autophagism. This in addition to not fulfilling its main objective, which is profitability: Western societies have become so rich (with regard to this internal criterion) that they can no longer properly increase this dynamic, except by resorting to artificial palliatives. But it is in reality a constitutive hoax, since it is through plunder that it has been constituted and constantly increased.
As for the notion of exponential economism, if it is more precise than the simple term of capitalism, it does not fully account for the role played by technology; it would be necessary to better translate the real globality of the phenomenon which is a total fact.

WhenABC speaks of Marxist ideology and its focus on redistributive aspects (and the implicit admiration for the industrial revolution which factually authorizes it), he neglects an important part of the work of Marx which constitutes above all a critique of the capitalist economy and, as such, goes much further in the analysis than what its zealots have retained **.
Further, he argues that capitalism can very well do without growth, which is not correct. Growth and capitalism are consubstantial and it is only with great difficulty that the latter resolves itself into stagnation. Of course, there are basins of collapse on the periphery of the central states and even worse, partial collapses internal to that same center, hence, as has been very aptly pointed out. Sen-no-sen space exploration or other projects, as long as colossal sums can be found to be used, while the classical and down-to-earth problems are neglected. This only underlines this obligation which results from a sum invested must find increased after having passed through the market.

* Through increased equality in other areas!
** The contradictions of his writings which always oscillate a little between theoretical criticism and immanent debates have greatly contributed to confuse ideas by orienting them towards the simplest.
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
humus
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1951
Registration: 20/12/20, 09:55
x 687

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 16:46

Ahmed wrote:The struggles you allude to Humus, are vicissitudes immanent in capitalism

Oh well, I thought it was energy? : Lol:

When we want to see an external cause that has any problem in order to better take responsibility for our own actions, we find and we are very strong for that, it is even cultivated.
This is the madness I was talking about.

I mean that capitalism or whatever it is is the emanation of internal springs in each one.
I have and you have the desire to own, improve etc. in you.
We are not satisfied with what is.
Capitalism is the extension of this.
The idea is not to flagellate oneself but to consider our internal springs, to make them aware, which naturally leads to a moderation of the realization of these initial desires.
We follow or we do not follow an initial idea that came to us.
Capitalism is the cult that whatever is more is good, and if we can, we do it.
No other moral.

To be a Macron, a Bezos, a Zuckerberg, you must have unplugged wires, or never have them plugged in.
We must no longer have doubts, no longer have morals to get to where they are. (cult of competition)
If everyone were like them it would be monstrous. (Well that would be impossible, it takes a lot of people to exploit or lead : Mrgreen: )
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12274
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2930

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Ahmed » 13/11/21, 16:57

Yes, these are internal fluctuations in capitalism, in order to maximize the dissipation of energy. What else? :P
0 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by sen-no-sen » 13/11/21, 17:03

humus wrote:[

I mean that capitalism or whatever it is is the emanation of internal springs in each one.
I have and you have the desire to own, improve etc. in you.


"The whole is greater than the sum of the elements which compose it".

A neuron does not make consciousness, consciousness is an emerging property resulting from the interaction of billions of neurons.
Likewise economism is not the individual, but an emerging property resulting from human and technological interactions within the techno-sphere.
This notion which would like capitalism to be registered in our genes or in our internal springs has no basis, because in such a case the rats would also be capitalists! : Lol:
1 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
ABC2019
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12927
Registration: 29/12/19, 11:58
x 1008

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 13/11/21, 17:05

humus wrote:I mean that capitalism or whatever it is is the emanation of internal springs in each one.
I have and you have the desire to own, improve etc. in you.
We are not satisfied with what is.
Capitalism is the extension of this.
The idea is not to flagellate oneself but to consider our internal springs, to make them aware, which naturally leads to a moderation of the realization of these initial desires.


not sure you understand everything, but you seem to have great ideas, you should go and expose them to the Indians and Africans who live 5 times worse than us, to tell them to be content with what is, and not to be like those Chinese bastards who pissed us off for the last twenty years - and especially not to fall into the trap of capitalism !!

(in addition it would also allow us to continue to build our computers and our zifones at low cost, it is very beneficial for everyone).
1 x
To pass for an idiot in the eyes of a fool is a gourmet pleasure. (Georges COURTELINE)

Mééé denies nui went to parties with 200 people and was not even sick moiiiiiii (Guignol des bois)
User avatar
GuyGadeboisTheBack
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 14597
Registration: 10/12/20, 20:52
Location: 04
x 4202

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 13/11/21, 17:16

As if "to live 5 times worse than us" it could mean anything. Poor Bouzo, more and more failed. : roll:
0 x
Ahmed
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 12274
Registration: 25/02/08, 18:54
Location: Burgundy
x 2930

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Ahmed » 13/11/21, 17:27

Is Bernard Arnault, who has X times the median income, lives X times better than the latter? Why reduce a quality to a quantity? Does that make any sense?
2 x
"Please don't believe what I'm telling you."
User avatar
GuyGadeboisTheBack
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 14597
Registration: 10/12/20, 20:52
Location: 04
x 4202

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 13/11/21, 17:29

Ahmed wrote:Is Bernard Arnault, who has X times the median income, lives X times better than the latter? Why reduce a quality to a quantity? Does that make any sense?

None ... except for a jerk.
0 x
User avatar
sen-no-sen
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 6856
Registration: 11/06/09, 13:08
Location: High Beaujolais.
x 749

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by sen-no-sen » 13/11/21, 17:43

Beyond a threshold of material dignity *, happiness is no longer correlated with (economic) wealth.
A system like ours tends to produce a lot of entropy. Even though free energy is sufficient, a significant number of citizens do not have sufficient access to this dignity. When I say "enough access" I mean that the means implemented by our company do not give the expected results.
It seems possible to reduce the level of entropy by a social reorganization. For this it would be necessary to create laboratories on the scale of small municipalities.


* Access to healthy and sufficient food, a healthy habitat, health, safety and quality education.
0 x
"Engineering is sometimes about knowing when to stop" Charles De Gaulle.
humus
Econologue expert
Econologue expert
posts: 1951
Registration: 20/12/20, 09:55
x 687

Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 20:07

sen-no-sen wrote:
humus wrote:[

I mean that capitalism or whatever it is is the emanation of internal springs in each one.
I have and you have the desire to own, improve etc. in you.


"The whole is greater than the sum of the elements which compose it".

A neuron does not make consciousness, consciousness is an emerging property resulting from the interaction of billions of neurons.

This is a hypothesis, just as consciousness could be outside the brain : Arrow: NDE
I finally get the idea but I don't see the connection : Wink:
Ah yes, yes, complexity emerges but the brick, selfishness, is the basis of capitalism and it is in us.

sen-no-sen wrote:This notion which would like capitalism to be registered in our genes or in our internal springs has no basis, because in such a case the rats would also be capitalists! : Lol:

Yes, they have the germs : Arrow: egoism but not the capacity to cultivate it, nor to organize it into a system.
0 x

Go back to "Fossil energies: oil, gas, coal and nuclear electricity (fission and fusion)"

Who is online ?

Users browsing this forum : No registered users and 101 guests