Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?

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humus
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 08:55

sicetaitsimple wrote:
humus wrote:
Finally, both do not understand that the balance of power vis-à-vis the capitalists can only come from the struggle of the working class against capitalism, over the means of production, by attacking the profits and private property of these people. means of production, through strikes, takeover and democratic management of these means of production by workers organized in workers' committees, etc.

E more generally, by the double task of:
- the mass organization of the working class into class struggle organizations (revolutionary and democratic unions)
- the construction of a revolutionary party of the working class carrying a program for a socialist society


Oh pu..in, a Proust madeleine! I did not know that this type of speech could last! It's all funny : roll:

What appeals to me in this speech is the construction of a revolutionary party .. carrying a program for a "socialist" society *
* in the sense of solidarity.
Indeed, faced with the monster that is capitalism, it is not by pissing in the shower and sorting out its waste that we will avoid the wall. It is necessary to mass like that it is always made for the advances:
It is not by sorting his waste that Hitler could have been removed from power, neither abolished slavery, nor the right to vote granted to women etc ...
It takes mass struggles against the established order for things to move forward.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 13/11/21, 09:06

Marxist ideology was born at a time when the overall productivity of the economy was growing strongly thanks to industrialization, and therefore the question of the distribution of the benefits of this growth between social classes was a real question. There was more and more wealth to be distributed, and therefore a real problem to ensure a fair distribution, or at least not too inequitable - the class struggle was a struggle to recover its share of the spoils (what I am saying here is not a value judgment, it is an observation). Afterwards, we will not dwell on the quite relative success of the attempts to implement Marxist solutions, but the goal sought was at least clear enough.

Now that we are clearly approaching the moment when the production of wealth hardly increases any more, and risks decreasing, the problem is posed quite differently. This is why the discourse of the left is currently totally inaudible and disoriented, it no longer knows how to recycle itself. How can we call for both the enrichment of the poor and a reduction in overall consumption, either imposed or desired for more or less good ecological reasons? the Marxist discourse is caught on the wrong foot by the exhaustion of resources, where the question is no longer how to enrich the poor, but how to prevent them from plunging into even greater poverty.

People like Humus have a completely fossilized discourse and clumsily try to make believe that the enrichment of the poor and the overall decrease in consumption are compatible, when it is clearly impossible. Behind the call to "revolt", we still do not know against whom and to ask what, hides a pitiful confession of helplessness.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 09:29

sen-no-sen wrote:
To say that capitalism generates monsters seems to me to be a very poor analysis.
Examples?

Well you already, not to see : Mrgreen:
In sound and image, of this sequence and go as far as "doubt":

here we have ABC2019 which is a good example of inconsistent and cynical boomer therefore without conscience and without heart.
This is what I call a monster, it is already all those who are bewitched (conditioned) by capitalism who do not see a problem. although there are nice monsters.
I have my monstrous share.


sen-no-sen wrote:Can we seriously say that this system is created by monsters?

Everyone has a potential hermeticity to the greed values ​​of capitalism, it's called conscience or morality, luckily people have a heart and it resists.
Even Hitler loved his dog. : Wink:
I didn't say everyone was a monster. : roll:
I say that the doctrine of capitalism tends to make grow in us a monstrous part: the cult of the ego, greed, greed.
What did not live the first peoples isolated from all comparison.
It is also germinating for them, since they are human but there is nothing to grow this monstrosity and then would be frowned upon, there is a cultural taboo that adds a cover.

sen-no-sen wrote:This is where we must show cynicism: the horror of the system does not lie in the practice of abusive speculation or affairs of state, corruption or even the overthrow of a regime, but on the contrary in its practice. fantastic ability to promote a more just world.

Fairer is said quickly (yes there is progress) but inequalities are increasing and any major progress is won at the cost of struggles. See my answer to this was simple.

sen-no-sen wrote:The alterglobalists and consort base their criticisms only on the deleterious aspects of capitalism, which clearly invalidates their analyzes when they see how they work on a daily basis.
In reality, most of the peripheral countries would like to be there!

Indeed, comfort puts to sleep. So far everything has been fine, from my living room anyway. : Mrgreen:
Do I remind you of the wall of resources, demography, the degradation of natural assets (nature, pollution)

sen-no-sen wrote:If we want to make a real criticism of the latter, we must therefore focus on analyzing its values

It is quickly flared. Her values ​​? egoism, cult of the ego, greed, always more and here is capitalism analyzed philosophically in 4 points. : Mrgreen:
These 4 points come from the misguided survival instinct, amplified, cultivated in the mental sphere where he has no place.
The survival instinct is a reflex, it should stay confined to primary survival (avoiding a ravine, things like that)
Nowadays and with the capitalism which cultivated in you the 4 points above, the survival is engaged in an exchange on forum.
: Arrow: Survival of ideas that belong to us (rich owner : roll: ) and which we care about.
Is real survival engaged? absolutely not.
Yet we act as if and this is human madness commonly shared by all of humanity, more or less.
It even seems that there are some who make wars : roll:
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 09:38

ABC2019 wrote:we still do not know against whom and to ask what, hides a pitiful confession of helplessness.

I answered you yesterday, you just have to read but I think you are finally too stupid, just irrecoverable.
Besides, you relate very badly the substance of my thoughts, which confirms this conclusion. : Mrgreen:

No need to bring out Graham Circus or complain to the police, when it's true, it's true, you have to face the facts, you're just stupid, a learned dog : Mrgreen:
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by ABC2019 » 13/11/21, 09:56

humus wrote:
ABC2019 wrote:we still do not know against whom and to ask what, hides a pitiful confession of helplessness.

I answered you yesterday, you just have to read but I think you are finally too stupid, just irrecoverable.
Besides, you relate very badly the substance of my thoughts, which confirms this conclusion. : Mrgreen:

No need to bring out Graham Circus or complain to the police, when it's true, it's true, you have to face the facts, you're just stupid, a learned dog : Mrgreen:

Posts that contain nothing but insults and no constructed arguments are just further admissions of helplessness.

But there is a presidential election soon, so either none of the candidates suits you, and it seems problematic to want to impose an ultra-minority solution, or there are some and we can count those who share your ideas. See you in May!
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 10:02

ABC2019 wrote:Posts that contain nothing but insults and no constructed arguments are just further admissions of helplessness.

Perfectly true, I am powerless whether you read the answers I give you or not, whether you understand me or not.
By 2 times you check the negative boxes, I have something else to do than shout in front of a puppet, let's stay there, definitely : Mrgreen:
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 10:08

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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by sen-no-sen » 13/11/21, 11:17

humus wrote:What appeals to me in this speech is the construction of a revolutionary party .. carrying a program for a "socialist" society *
* in the sense of solidarity.
Indeed, faced with the monster that is capitalism, it is not by pissing in the shower and sorting out its waste that we will avoid the wall. It is necessary to mass like that it is always made for the advances:
It is not by sorting his waste that Hitler could have been removed from power, neither abolished slavery, nor the right to vote granted to women etc ...
It takes mass struggles against the established order for things to move forward.


Socialism is a phase of capitalism ... that's just for the record. : roll:
The abolition of slavery, the voting rights of women are consequences of "capitalism" ... the problem is this term of capitalism which locks its users into simplifying and dualistic reasoning.
Failing to use the more scientific notion of exponential economism, authors of the past such as Renee Guenon used the term modernity. This term has in fact the quality to be able to encompass a set of things and is not reduced to defining only the trends of the moment.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by humus » 13/11/21, 11:46

sen-no-sen wrote:Socialism is a phase of capitalism ... that's just for the record. : roll:

let's say that it was more the socializing intention * than traditional socialism as we know it, that I took. : Wink:
* solidarity, pooling of resources etc ...

sen-no-sen wrote:The abolition of slavery, the voting rights of women are consequences of "capitalism"
Or milk? all the people who made these advances all drank milk one day. : Wink:

Difficult to disentangle what is consequence.
We don't have a lot of point of comparison.
Soviet socialism is the result of a struggle "against" (1917) and these rights came only after this struggle.
ditto in France, there were struggles for all that. to say that all this is the consequence of capitalism, as if we had generously given ... there is a step that I do not take : Oops:



capitalism = 'exponential economism, whatever the words, right?

sen-no-sen wrote:authors of the past like Renee Guenon used the term modernity. This term has in fact the quality to be able to encompass a set of things and is not reduced to defining only the trends of the moment.

As I do not know, I do not see what it brings.

The trends of the moment are the extension of thousand-year-old trends: to take care of yourself first before taking care of others.
Today with the cult of the ego and the power of the exponential, it takes on disproportionate and physically unbearable proportions.
Excuse me for always reducing everything to the simplest expression, to the root of everything : Arrow: human nature.
Cultivated people don't like : Mrgreen: It would be so simple, we would have been told! : Shock:
Maybe not, precisely.
Locked in a collective illusion that we are. That of identifying with his thoughts.
But basically it thinks by itself.
This identification leads to "natural" capitalism and all the problems we can encounter in life.
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Re: Can we make the ecological transition without nuclear power?




by Ahmed » 13/11/21, 12:59

The struggles you allude to Humus, are vicissitudes immanent in capitalism to better restructure and progress: right and left are the two poles that move to bring about these changes.
Likewise, real socialism was only a techno-industrial upgrade that widened the sphere of action of modern capitalism.
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