Tricastin, another incident! Nuclear, beginning of the end?

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Tricastin, another incident! Nuclear, beginning of the end?




by Christophe » 29/07/08, 16:47

Never 2 without 3? And after? What new incident does Edf reserve for us? By extending the life of the power stations, the Tricastin power station is more than 25 years old (Built in 1974, commissioned in 1980 and 1981) Edf really takes his dreams for realities...

Unless all these incidents are "routine" and have simply gone unnoticed for years ... The incident of July 8 was only a catalyst reveal ...

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Site_nucl% ... _Tricastin

New incident at the Tricastin nuclear power plant
NOUVELOBS.COM | 29.07.2008 | 16: 06

A hundred employees were evacuated Tuesday morning following the outbreak of an alarm probably caused by a new escape of radioactive dust into the No4 reactor. 45 employees were taken to the infirmary. According to EDF, this incident has no impact on the health of the personnel concerned.

One hundred employees were evacuated Tuesday morning July 29 nuclear plant Tricastin (Vaucluse) following the triggering of an alarm likely caused by a new exhaust of radioactive dust into the reactor No4, have we learned from concordant sources.

Of the 127 evacuees, 45 were taken to the infirmary. Two people carried "extremely faint traces" of radioactivity which are "not significant". "We are below the thresholds", according to Jean Girardi, a plant engineer joined by LCI.

According to EDF, this incident has no impact on the health of the personnel concerned. Investigations continued to determine the causes of this release. The incident occurred at 9h30 in the No4 reactor building while it was shut down for maintenance.
This new incident at the Tricastin power station comes after a hundred employees of this same power station had been "slightly contaminated" on July 23 by radioelements which escaped from a pipe in the building containing the same No4 reactor. On July 7, 74 kilos of uranium escaped from a retention tank at the Socatri plant, a subsidiary of Areva, adjoining the EDF plant.


http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualit ... astin.html
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by jonule » 04/08/08, 13:49

ok, where did the gas end,

do not care, is that it?

ah no I know: some of the figures will say "well drowned in the air the concentration becomes negligible" ... yes but a single highly radiocative particle is enough which lodges in a lung, passes into the blood ...
in the air, after that falls back into pasture or rain water ... someday!

So how do you recognize lung cancer from tobacco or uranium?
Well, you can not see it, unless you pass the whole human body to the mass spectrometer sample by sample, but it's destructive once the body is dead ... heavy metals such as lead, mercury, uranium cesium ( and many others) are mainly fixed in the heart and brain ...

to talk again about the power plants which are going to close, we will finally have to pay the price for these delusions, which will be privatized, although "normally" a jackpot had to be set aside for that ... where would it have gone before privatization? ? ? ? ?
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by jonule » 04/08/08, 13:59

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Who's next ? fessenheim? by 2 months!

Fessenheim: a European collective calls for the final shutdown of the power station

AFP - 25.07.08 - A European collective announced Friday to have filed an appeal to request the immediate and definitive shutdown of the Fessenheim (Haut-Rhin) plant, the oldest of the French nuclear fleet. According to the trinational Association of Nuclear Protection (ATPN), which includes municipalities and associations French, German and Swiss, this power plant, entered into service in 1977, operates "with an old and outdated security benchmark".

"The French, Swiss and German residents of this power station (...) no longer want to live with this sword of Damocles", said the ATPN in a statement. The appeal was filed before the Minister of Energy, Jean-Louis Borloo, and the Economy Christine Lagarde.

"This appeal is a request prior to referral to a court," Corinne Lepage told AFP, whose law firm was in charge of the case. "If in two months, they do not give us satisfaction, we will seize an administrative tribunal, "added the former Minister of the Environment.

At the same time, the association indicates that it is working on a referral from the European Commission. The site's facilities, regularly denounced by environmental associations for their dilapidation, are in "generally satisfactory" condition, the Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) estimated at the end of May.


as to the latest debacles and other leaks of the kind:
France - Paris, July 24 - Fifteen days after the radiation leak from a subsidiary of Areva, Socatri at Tricastin, followed by another subsidiary, FBFC in Romans-sur-Isère, it's the turn of EDF facilities to demonstrate the shortcomings of the French nuclear industry. 15 people were infected on July 18 at the Saint-Alban power plant, and yesterday it was the massive contamination of 100 workers at the EDF Tricastin power plant that took place.
Considered as "anomaly" or simple "gap", all these incidents reveal the dangerousness of a poorly controlled technology. In view of this, Greenpeace is calling for a broad nuclear debate, but also the suspension of the EPR program.

For the environmental association, this series of incidents highlights the extent of the problem posed by the nuclear industry: aging facilities, poorly controlled processes, subcontracting in cascade, contamination of workers, old and long-lasting pollution of the environment. environment ... all without the control system being able to prevent these incidents, but just able to make an observation with sometimes years of delay!

"These incidents demonstrate that, beyond incantations, the nuclear energy that we are presented as a clean and safe energy remains a polluting, dangerous and poorly controlled energy! Says Frédéric Marillier, nuclear and energy campaigner at Greenpeace France. "We must not believe that we are dealing with a black series these last 15 days because the nuclear power in France is more than 900 incidents of this type per year as well as regular and old pollution around facilities. "

Greenpeace calls for the suspension of the EPR program because it is inconceivable to revive nuclear power when we realize today that we do not master this technology and we rediscover that it pollutes. Especially since nuclear energy is not essential and the priority must finally and really be given to alternatives such as energy savings and renewables.

The association also requests the holding of a vast national debate on nuclear power in France that allows citizens not only to clearly understand the potential dangers of nuclear power but also to make a structured assessment of its interest or not in the emergency climate.


you see Christophe, they are for an alternative (passage in blue)!

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Hey, by the way! I believe that Greenpeace are the ONLY to act for the will of the French who can not be heard!
otherwise you know someone else? heh, it's time to talk! -)

at the time of the nuclear tests in Polynesia, they illegally had their boat destroyed by the French army, this scandal was revealed and put back to the taste of the day last night on an excellent report, of people who are not afraid as you and I go on the pitch to be heard, quite to take a slap but they always end up being right because it's the common sense way.

these are the only ones to ask for a debate on the nuclear / EPR, it is not too late!

we will have warned you however .........
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by Remundo » 07/08/08, 11:07

Hi everyone, Christophe, Jonule ...

Whenever I watch TV, I think of Jonule : Cheesy:

You have to be divided between the desperate show of radioelements leaks and the great anti-nuclear media summer that comes at the right moment in the debate on RE and the development of EPR.

Not being a fierce anti-nuclear, I still welcome this excellent balance back. People will realize that nuclear is not all clean and mastered contrary to the pompous claims of some institutions that I will not name ...

In any case, do not worry, it will have no impact on the French energy policy of "all nuclear". It is far too heavily involved and intricate, both civil and military, to do an about-face : Idea:

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by jonule » 07/08/08, 11:20

Well it's not with a reasoning like this that it will change anyway! it looks like a sheep who forces himself to swallow his mashed potatoes! : Lol:

me it's not that I'm worried, it's just that while to be crushed without being heard, so enjoy it to yell and be heard!

when we think that only green activists like greenpeace do something to be heard in the media, we have to support them if we think like them who think like us.

yes the building sites were started by force without public consultation, it's dictatorship, after changing the law on nuclear transparency secret defense ...

I think the first EPR accident ... in 2020 ... will it be announced or silenced? who will detect leaks?
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by Remundo » 07/08/08, 12:46

does it eat mashed potatoes, a sheep? : Cheesy:

We've already debated the problem, and I think neither you nor I have changed my mind ...

I agree with you that there is an anti-democratic aspect to the politics of the nuclear whole, and that it is conducted without much transparency. 99% of the population has no idea how a nuclear power plant works, and 99,9% has no knowledge of nuclear physics. 99,9% can not quantify the danger induced by a radiative dose

As is curious, nuclear physics is almost not taught (a few hours of course in Terminale S, soon forgotten after the bac ...?) As it is curious ... the pretty schemes of plants show moultes beautiful steam turbines, with their blades, their huge aerogenerator that makes a very pure water vapor ... and a pretty heart all beautiful red ...

That said, nuclear is the only way of energy transition towards renewable energy for France, protecting it from the "excesses" of the hydrocarbon market, and placing it as the European leader in electricity. Without the "nuke", France would currently be in a very serious economic crisis and our current small purchasing power problems would seem very mild to us.

I would like the nuclear is a way of transition, for lack of better for the moment in the global energy industrial policy ... I fear that many do not see it as the new eldorado for 100 years, as the first discoverers oil ago 100 years ago ...

We see where it led us for the climate, at least for the CO2 ... I leave you, Jonah, expose us what the planet will be in 100 years if we burn all the U235 that there is on earth, and better still, that it breeds Plutononium ... the cheap fuel of atomic bombs, it must be remembered ... :|

Let us be optimistic and hope that a frank and reasonable inflection will take place with the economic recession after peak-oil, and perhaps some climatic disasters to come in 25 or 30 years ...

Actually Jonule, you saw the trick: I eat, but it stuck a little in the throat ... :?
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by Christophe » 07/08/08, 12:52

Without the "nuke", France would currently be in a very serious economic crisis


Alleluia! Thank you EdF which saves the French economy ... Without dec I hope that it was ironic your remark ??

Does that mean that the economic situation in France is even worse than we think?

So how do the other European countries that have no nuke and good, at least better than France, economic results?

If oil is strategic in the economy of a country, I think the price of electricity is much less ...

A small question: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fonctionna ... t5858.html
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by jonule » 07/08/08, 13:37

it is clear, it is not the planar that has prevented the privatization of EDF and organized racketeering on soaring prices of electricity, which is far from over ... so a little weak as reasoning , it dates from 1973 under giscard no? -)
now the price of oil and the nuclear are imposed by the industrialists, there are pals to choose, more ideas to find ...

in any case, it's nice to see that you are lucid remundo recognizing that most people do not have access to nuclear information and the danger that this represents, and that the more you go, the further you get from the realities who will end up (re) falling anyway one day or another, it is fatal it is human ... some will be prepared others not.

That said, nuclear power is the only way of energy transition towards renewable energy for France, protecting it from the “excesses” of the hydrocarbon market, and placing it as the European leader in electricity. Without the "nuke", France would currently be in a very serious economic crisis and our current small purchasing power problems would seem very mild to us.

you see when I hear that, you think you hear the news: why take an interest in an economic game that we do not have a say in, given that the price of oil and nuclear power are imposed?
the buying power is a decoy compared to the real problems as underlined Christophe, like the economic crisis and all the rest: it is necessary to go down a little on earth and to think to make food for our children not?

yes all the plutonium (non-existent on earth) created by the use of uranium (the only fissile fuel on earth at the time, but it is no longer the only one now) stored for years and / or used in the manufacture of atomic bombs, will be used in the EPR plants that Sarko and his friends impose on us.
even more beautiful the country of our childhood.
ok nuclear pollution is not seen, but it kills silently ... so shut up good people and sleep quiet.
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by Remundo » 07/08/08, 15:35

Hi Christopher!
Christophe wrote:
Without the "nuke", France would currently be in a very serious economic crisis


Alleluia! Thank you EdF which saves the French economy ... Without dec I hope that it was ironic your remark ??

Does that mean that the economic situation in France is even worse than we think?

So how do the other European countries that have no nuke and good, at least better than France, economic results?

If oil is strategic in the economy of a country, I think the price of electricity is much less ...

A small question: https://www.econologie.com/forums/fonctionna ... t5858.html

Ah, I feel you spicy : Cheesy:

I will try this clarify what I meant ...

On this link: http://www.debat-energies.gouv.fr/energ ... leaire.htm

You will be able to see that the nuclear power in France produces the trifle of 40% of the energy primary consumed, any use confused.

If now we consider the proportion in the electric mix, at the last news, 87% of GWh injected has been with the atom... see:
http://www.industrie.gouv.fr/energie/st ... e_elec.htm
paragraph "total production"

So, without forcing the line much, all the French electricity is nuke ...

Who uses it? to 63% the residential and the tertiary. the other third, industries. Here is a summary of the people involved and their use of MWh ...
http://www.industrie.gouv.fr/energie/st ... -elect.htm

This being stated ...

Imagine that EDF multiplies its prices by 2 or 3 ... (Economically legitimate from the point of view of EDF for the surge of gas and oil). Immediate economic disaster.

The French nuke alone supports all sectors, both industrial and residential / service buildings.

So the price of electricity, is certainly perhaps less important than that of the barrel, but in France, it is not less strategic because it is about the competitiveness of the companies, the capacity of savings of the inhabitants .
And it goes well beyond! In international negotiations, it's a very strong means of pressure for France: it's calledenergy independence.

We would be forced to sign unholy contracts with Sheikh Muhammad and Dmitri Beresofvsky kneeling us if we did not nuke to spit the kW well from home and not too expensive ... The Germans, for once misplaced, play very tight with the Russians on the gas, precisely because they do not have a sufficient nuclear park !!

You should also know that EDF sells power on average between 6 and 13 GW abroad. This basically represents 10 nuclear power plants that only run for our European neighbors ... see the latest June 2008 bulletin here:
http://www.rte-france.com/htm/fr/mediat ... 008_06.pdf
and also some good little billions of euros, failing to balance the balance of payments of the French cicada, naturally ...

This slowly brings us to "how are the neighbors doing?" ...
Hey bé they grill coal or buy back from EDF ... The most "eco-friendly" are based on massive hydraulic production (Scandinavia, Switzerland), or else, given their low needs, try the adventure of wind power (Denmark).

In addition, some countries work more than us ... Deutsch in terms of energy industry, are leaders in all sectors of renewable energy (wind, biomass, hydraulic, solar photovoltaic, Stirling and thermodynamics). They are already helping Spaniards to develop concentrating solar towers, among others.

In France, the Rooster sings on a mountain of radioactive waste; he is so comfortable with that that he brings in a handful of millions of Euros the waste of others to "reprocess" (that is to say, store them) at home, in a not too much countryside area. lived ... but there I become bad language.

That's it, will understand who will want : Idea:
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by jonule » 07/08/08, 16:02

I am not sure that the "gouv.fr" sites are the best in terms of objective information?

I am not talking about their interpretations, however, if we refer to an "independent" and informative site like sortirdunucléaire:
"While nuclear represents 75% of the electricity produced in France, it actually represents only 15% of the energy consumed in France and only 6% worldwide."
> nuclear in 15 questions:
http://www.sortirdunucleaire.org/index. ... =questions

and to stay in the subject:
01 / 08 / 2008: News-Environnement.com
Nuclear power, environmental irresponsibility?


The leak of effluents contaminated with uranium occurred last July 8 on the site of the Socatri-Areva Tricastin (Drôme) led the company Areva to dismiss the director general of its subsidiary, the Socatri, and pay a compensation to injured farmers. This case refers to environmental responsibility and the principle of polluter pays In the nuclear industry.


This month of July has been rich in radioactive events. After the malfunctions of the EPR construction site in Flamanville, the Tour de France nuclear accidents continues: the 8 July, 74 kilos of uranium spilled in effluents on the Tricastin site, the 17, leak on a pipe of the nuclear installation from the CERCA to Romans-sur-Isère, then, the 18 July, contamination of 15 temporary employees working at the nuclear power plant of Saint-Alban (Isère), and the 23 contamination of a hundred people in Tricastin. Events both serious and ordinary, which are part of the "banality of evil" that the philosopher Hannah Arendt evoked, sort of fatality of the society of the risk, whose opinion does not know what real gravity to attribute to them.

Some 900 "minor" incidents of the type of those declared in recent days to Tricastin are recorded each year in the nuclear power in France, testifying, according to experts, good control of the sector, but revealing, according to environmentalists, the dangerousness of this energy. This black nuclear series comes as the Environmental Liability Act was passed on July 22 2008. If it has enshrined in French law the notion of ecological damage, it has not taken charge of the nuclear risk. Indeed, Because of the particular risks inherent in the nuclear industry and their cross-border nature, the civil liability of the operators does not fall under common law.

An exorbitant regime of common law

In Europe, the operators of public or private nuclear installations, civil or military, are covered by the Paris Convention of 29 July 1960, the Brussels Supplementary Convention of 31 January 1963, the Protocol of 16 November 1982, then that of February 2004 amending this Convention. These texts provide that repair of damage caused by a nuclear accident will be carried out on public funds, in the event that the damage exceeds the amount covered by the insurance or the financial guarantee of the operator. But this "repair" is itself limited.

In France, the transposition into domestic law of these agreements was made through the laws of 30 October 1968 and 11 May 1990 which are based on the principle of the strict liability of the operator and only him in case of accident nuclear, but limit for the moment this responsibility to 90 million euros by accident, the additional costs being borne by the State within the limit of 380 million euros. The financial guarantee will be increased to 700 million from the application of the 2004 Protocol, which now depends on the ratification of all the signatory countries.

In fact, these state guarantees apply only to nuclear accidents at or below 5 on the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) scale up to the 7 level. The Chernobyl disaster was 7, while the Three Mile Island accident (USA, 1979) was 5, like that of Windscale (Great Britain, 1957), and that of Saint-Laurent-des (France, 1980) level 4. Even the rich United States does not cover 6 and 7 level accidents.

This means that the huge consequences of such accidents would be borne by the victims. The possibility - and the historical reality at Chernobyl - of accidents at levels 6 and 7 should be recognized and supported by the nuclear industry. An insurance "ecotax" could apply for all levels of nuclear accidents, but it does not exist.

A fair proposal for the internalisation of major nuclear risk costs has been formulated by two German economists. It consists of apply the "polluter pays" principle by levying a tax of one euro cent per kWh produced by each reactor in the world. In the year 2000, the primary nuclear power generation of the 440 reactors of the world was 2586 TWh (2586 x 109 kWh). The fund thus constituted by the sums collected from nuclear operators would therefore be pledged to the tune of more than 25 billion euros per year. In twenty years, the amount of this fund would be of an order of magnitude sufficient to compensate the victims and cover the other costs of a major nuclear accident.

In the United States, in the mid-1950s, as civilian nuclear power began to interest some private investors in the United States, the question arose of the liability of operators in the event of accidents. Insurance companies refused to cover a risk difficult to quantify, Senator Clinton Anderson and MP Melvin Price proposed to Congress, from 1957, a short-term law (10 years) to help the development of nascent civil nuclear by bringing the Federal State guarantee in the event of an accident.

Specifically, this law limited the nuclear industry's liability to $ 560 million and limited the coverage of private insurance companies to 100 million per reactor. Prolonged several times, the current Price-Anderson Act raises these caps to 9,1 billion and 200 million dollars respectively. The cost of the Chernobyl disaster has been estimated at 360 billion for Russia, Ukraine and Belarus alone. The cost of a major nuclear accident in the United States is estimated between 500 and 600 billion depending on the location of the reactor that would be involved.

Given the ceiling of 9,1 billion, we can say that the US nuclear industry is only responsible for 2% of the potential costs of a major accident due to its activity! The other 98% would be paid by the taxpayer, via the Federal Treasury. In other words, we are far from the "polluter pays" principle of the Rio Conference (1992). One study estimated that the Price-Anderson Act is the equivalent of an 3,4 1990 annual public subsidy of XNUMX insurance costs avoided to the US nuclear industry.

The 22 last July has been transposed into French law, with one year late, the directive (2004 / 35 of 21 April 2004) on environmental responsibility with regard to the prevention and repair of environmental damage. This is the first European regulation strictly based on the "polluter pays" principle. During the parliamentary debate, MP Yves Cochet (Greens) proposed the creation of a compensation fund for victims, provisioned by the companies themselves, rather than by the taxpayer.

The question of the limitation period following the event giving rise to an environmental damage was also raised. Its duration, fixed at 30 years, proves insufficient to turn towards industrialists responsible for damage, such as the persistence of radioactivity, or the incidence of PCBs in the Rhone, which lasts several decades after their ban. Finally, the member was surprised that nuclear power is part of the activities exempted from environmental responsibilities: the law must apply to the potential environmental and human health damages that could be caused by nuclear power plants.

Whether it is the compensation of the victims, the restoration of the environment after a nuclear accident, or the duration of the responsibility of an industrialist such as the Areva group after a damage in France, this striking is the disproportion between the financing provided for by the European Conventions and the real costs, which is incumbent on the community. Nuclear damage is always explicitly excluded from insurance policies, which implies that the compensation files will not be managed by the usual insurers of the victims, but by a specific device.

As for the diseases presumed to be caused by the nuclear accident, they are defined by decree. Compensation levels are also set by decree. Interlocutor in case of a serious accident is not clearly designated. It remains to establish a single window so that victims can identify a single referent for compensation. And above all, to develop post-accident situation management systems, not so much "for" society, as "with" it.


* Michael Kelly and Johannes Welcker, '' Risk Cover for Nuclear Power Stations '', http://www.uni-saarland.de/fak1/fr12/we ... _Risk.html
** JA Durbin and GS Rothwell, "Subsidies to Nuclear Power Through Price Anderson Liability Limit," Contemporary Policy Issues, Vol. VII, 1990, pp. 73-79
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