Tricastin, another incident! Nuclear, beginning of the end?

[Remundo]

I am not sure that the "gouv.fr" sites are the best in terms of objective information?

I am not talking about their interpretations, however, if we refer to an "independent" and informative site like sortirdunucléaire:
"While nuclear represents 75% of the electricity produced in France, it actually represents only 15% of the energy consumed in France and only 6% worldwide."
> nuclear in 15 questions:
http://www.sortirdunucleaire.org/index. ... =questions

For the figures, these are reliable sources. The sites I have given expose figures. You greatly underestimate the share of nuclear in France, it constitutes 40% of energy production primary and almost 90% of the electricity (excluding export!).
http://www.industrie.gouv.fr/energie/po ... etique.htm
It represents 17% of global electric power, and 7% of global primary energy...
http://www.sfen.org/fr/energie/eco1.pdf

Do not confuse electrical energy and primary energy ...

I only chose by teasing spirit sources that you like: EDF, SFEN and industrie.gouv.fr

Otherwise, go see JM Jancovici who says roughly the same and remains a model of diplomatic neutrality on his website ...

Otherwise, the world seen by EDF ... We discover a strong revival of the civil atom at the global level
https://www.econologie.info/share/partag ... Rkq36p.ppt

[jonule]

no need to debate remundo nuclear, the subject is on tricastin, and now we are talking about compensation for victims, a subject that should touch us all.

no it is not government sites and their figures that I believe, like 53% of French ...

moreover i spent a good part of the time to show how this industry lied and roof you base you on their publications, tss ...

they use a deviated language, a bit like you just did, by re-inventing the term, here for example you speak of primary energy, for me it is to drown the fish.

wikipedia: "
The primary forms of energy are:

* Human and animal energy: mechanical animal traction energy
* Mechanical energy of natural elements:
o Hydraulic energy (streams and waterfalls) transformed into mechanical energy (water mills) or electrical energy (hydroelectric power station).
o Tidal energy (tides) transformed into electrical energy in tidal power stations.
o Wind energy (wind) transformed into mechanical energy (windmills, sailboats, sand yachting) or electrical energy (wind generator).
* Chemical energy: transformed into heat (thermal energy) by combustion, then into electricity.

Cogeneration consists in producing heat and electricity simultaneously. Fuels can also power motors. Combustion releases carbon dioxide (CO2).

*
o Mineral fuels:
+ Solid mineral fuels (CMS): coal, lignite, based on more or less pure carbon.
+ Hydrocarbons: natural gas, petroleum (molecules formed of carbon and hydrogen).
o Explosives: uncontrolled energy.
o Biomass: wood, plant products and waste, formed from organic matter (mainly carbon, hydrogen and oxygen), transformed into various fuels: wood and derivatives, diester, methane (biogas), methanol, ethanol ...
* Nuclear energy :
o Fission: radioactivity of uranium and plutonium transformed into heat, then into electricity; part of the heat is lost and released to air and water.
o Fusion: still in the experimental stage.
* Solar energy: solar radiation, transformed into heat (solar water heater, heat pump) or into electricity (photo-voltaic cells).
* Terrestrial thermal energy:
o Geothermal energy: exploitation of the natural heat of the deep layers of the earth's crust.
"

so like that, nuclear would represent 40%? in terms of what, the watts produced? released "into the air and into the water", as the definition says?

short ...

as for jancovici who wants to remove the precautionary principle because anti competitive, I will not put it in my boots either ...

> In addition, the following are not included in the calculation of nuclear electricity production:
the energy necessary for the extraction of the ore, the transprot, the trasnformation, the maintenance of the installations, their dismantling, the management of waste etc etc etc etc etc etc ..........

alros STOP! a little respect for those infected with Tricastin

[minguinhirigue]

What you say Rémundo and Jonule probably comes from a different reading of similar documents.

Energy balance in France in 2006 by the energy and raw materials department:
Primary resources in millions of tonnes of oil equivalent: 12,41 in coal, 91,30 in oil, 39,36 in natural gas, 117,32 in nuclear, 18,29 in renewable energies or waste. There are therefore of the 273,23 Mtoe "exploitable", 43% are nuclear type.

Final consumption (Mtoe): 6,98 in coal and Coke, 85,67 in petroleum products, 36,55 in gas, 37,00 in electricity, 10,91 in renewable thermal energy. In electricity, in addition to nuclear, 5,01 Mtoe come from conventional thermal power plants, 5,49 from dams and wind turbines, and 5,45 are sold abroad. Nuclear therefore constitutes 31,95 Mtoe of the 42,45 Mtoe consumed in electricity, i.e. 75,3% of the electricity consumed and only 18% of final French energy consumption ...

You get carried away because you take for one the available energy and the other the energy actually produced.

Jonule, these figures, in agreement with the independent body, come from the only office responsible for synthesizing these data, the DGEMP. It's sad but it's like that. On the other hand, it seems that independent organizations read the data differently from what the government does !?

But it is not this different reading that will cure those who are sick today of having too much watching you TV in the nuclear light ... I wish a speedy recovery to Triscatin.

However, these events should not make us forget the sites where companies strip layers of clay over the uranium vein without the municipalities understanding only slightly irradiated clay released in trade, it enriches the municipality and the company that operates it, but it's a medium-term drama. Thus between Uzès and Alès, it is a layer of clay covering 2500 tonnes of uranium which are likely to be exploited in a short time ...

So as some say geological barriers do not always exist, but from there to remove them !?

[jonule]

yes it is on the interpretation which does not differ the figures, we just proved it all together ;-)

that's why I am wary of official figures like 53% ...


> what is this story of bare clay layers?
they want to resell the clay? to do what ?
normally there is no uranium mining in France ?!

between Uzès and Alès, the little paradise on earth ... will soon be contaminated? it deflates me ... I hope that an association will be created as a defense of heritage and watch it all suddenly geiger counter!

[minguinhirigue]

Bah for the use of clay, there is construction, but also pottery, and pharmaceutical clay. How about eating becquerels to treat stomach aches?
I don't know what they really want to do with it, I just know that a friend trying to get people moving about it, he managed to find an association of craftsmen who was ready to buy the land and make an ecological artisanal area there, but the town hall did not want to ...

I do not know all the details, but the project seems to evolve towards the exploitation of this layer of clay, we will surely leave what is necessary to hide the uranium ...

[jonule]

must mobilize the potters!

do you have a source of the article or other please? some association?

[minguinhirigue]

The guy who fought against that is a bit without a phone and without internet at home, I try to contact him by mail to find out more ...

[jonule]

Hello
Any news from the guy?

Hello,

Following the "incidents in nuclear power plants", the Nouvel Observateur is organizing a survey of Internet users on its site:

To date, more than 60% of respondents have voted "We must secure the plants, but continue."
Only 30% of respondents voted "We must stop building them".

To tip the scales in the right direction, take the few seconds necessary to vote in favor of stopping the construction of the power plants, on the page:
http://tempsreel.nouvelobs.com/actualit ... es/nature/
("The question of the day" section, top right of the page)

Thank you for your involvement !

hey it's funny, now it's 80% who are for "banning them" ahlala public consultations is not that.

[jonule]

Tricastin: why these leaks?

On Friday, Areva announced that a defect in a pipeline from one of its subsidiaries located in Pierrelatte (Drôme) had caused a "small leak" on Thursday. Nothing serious, according to the energy group. Another proof that these dilapidated installations must be closed, according to the Sortir du nuclear network, and put an end to nuclear power. It was the sixth such incident in less than two months.

A small radioactive leak was detected Thursday by the company Comurhex, a subsidiary of Areva, in Pierrelatte, in the Drôme ... on the Tricastin nuclear site. One more, therefore, since it is the sixth incident of this kind since the beginning of July. This was detected on a buried pipeline, which was no longer in use. But during modernization work on this network, the workers noticed that a defective valve had allowed samples to pass leaving an analysis laboratory towards a reprocessing station. This leak can be "estimated at 250 grams of uranium over a period of one year maximum," said a press release from the prefecture of Drôme. This incident provoked the anger of the Sortir du nuclear network, while Areva wants to be reassuring.
>
> "This case only confirms once again that the factories which supplement nuclear power stations - those which manufacture fuels for example (*) - are obsolete", denounces Stéphane Lhomme, spokesperson for Sortir du nuclear, contacted by the JDD.fr. "We discover leaks by chance, but the one in Romans-sur-Isère, which came to light in mid-July, was the result of a broken pipe that dated back several years. And it is certainly the same for this time. Toxic discharges seep into the gardens of local residents, and permanently contaminate the environment", he points out." We denounce the optimistic discourse of the authorities, who want to be reassuring each time for health and minimize the risks of such incidents without having proof of what they claim. It is extremely serious. These discharges are unacceptable and probably worrying for health because they pollute the water table."
>
> A leak of more than a year
>
> On the Areva side, it is explained on the contrary that the pipeline only transported "rinsing juice, which leaves the laboratories and therefore has only a low uranium content". "There is no question of any optimism on the part of the operator," explains Catherine Dalverny, communications manager at Areva. "After the incident declaration, the Regional Directorate for Industry, Research and the Environment (Drire) and the Nuclear Safety Authority (ASN) carried out a reactive inspection on Friday evening, and expressed their views on the minor environmental character of the leak (...) There is no risk to the environment and health. If the authorities themselves have expressed themselves in this direction, there is nothing to fear ... ", she adds..
>
> Thibaut Dauger, who took part in the inspection of the Drire, confirmed to JDD.fr that the impact of the leak seemed minor. But it remains cautious, insofar as analyzes of the soil and the water table are in progress. Asked about the absence of risk to the environment and health, he replied: "we are awaiting the results of the analyzes". The incriminated installation is shut down for the duration of the in-depth checks and subject to authorization from the Drire for restarting, said the Drôme prefecture. "If we do not have any bad surprises, we will not go further and will not take any measure prohibiting water consumption," said Thibaut Dauger. According to him, this leak would date "at worst from 1981, when the installation was created."." But it is impossible ", he added, estimating however that it must go back to" more than a year ". He also believes that it could have been avoided because it results from a "failure to monitor certain overhead lines".
>
> "It will leak everywhere!"
>
> Asked about the "black series" that Areva is going through, Stéphane Lhomme explains it by the aging of the installations. "It turns out that the majority of these installations are getting old to the point of becoming completely obsolete. We are getting to a point where it will leak everywhere!", He exclaims. An assertion refuted by Catherine Dalverny. "In this case, there was a fault on a pipe. And if there is a willingness of the group to invest to perpetuate the safety of its pipes, we must not extrapolate", she puts into perspective. . According to her, Areva has "always communicated in the same way, has never hidden anything and does not intend to do so. Press releases like the one on Friday, there were some before July 7. But since that day , date of the incident at Socatri [another subsidiary of Areva, which accidentally released 74 kilos of uranium into the environment on July 7, Ed], there was a real spotlight on this type of problem . "
>
> For Stéphane Lhomme, the interest aroused by these leaks is legitimate. "Should we wait for major disasters to occur to take the necessary measures?", He wonders. He advocates purely and simply the "closure of these facilities. This would mean stopping the nuclear industry, but it is essential." He also stressed that a "preliminary investigation was opened by the gendarmerie following complaints from residents and associations - including Sortir du nuclear". Complaints of which Catherine Dalverny was not aware, who believed on the other hand that the investigation had been initiated by the prosecutor of Valence. "It will take several weeks. Until then, we will not know anything more about the consequences of this leak," said Stéphane Lhomme.
>
>
> (*) Comurhex is responsible for the chemical preparation phase of the uranium before its enrichment.

[Christine]

The framework is different, but does not prevent:

When is the next incident at the Institute of radioelements (IRE), in Fleurus (Charleroi)? Last weekend, the chimney of this foundation, which specializes in the production of radioisotopes for nuclear medicine, released abnormally high amounts of iodine into the atmosphere.
[...]
... recommended that the population living in Fleurus, Lambusart, Wanfercée-Baulet and Keumiée not consume their garden fruits and vegetables.

Residents are also advised not to drink milk from cows near the IRE, or water from wells.

http://www.levif.be/actualite/belgique/ ... eurus.html

What is disturbing is that it has been going on for almost a week and that no one had really noticed because the broadcast is slow and progressive ...

Reassuring on controls and responsiveness.