Manufacture torch hydrogen or Brown's Gas

[Capt_Maloche]

34 pages since 2008, certainly I had a period of absence related to the job

In short, I will resume the TP, be constructive, there is no one in the assembly to test instead of blablater?
where are the real econologists?

A + + +

[Capt_Maloche]

Well, I have to leave ..... from there, that's it
Pushpin, I stopped in 2008!

GREAT!

I just received my 110 250x250mm Food Stainless Plates
serious things will start

I think (if so ) at the best assembly, promised the crobard arrives ... it will be simple.

I'm going back to memory on the feeding of the cells and I gather the scattered data:

these are 110 2.2V voltage divider mounted cells that will be installed for a contemplated gas flow rate of 650 L / h and 2400W consumed

Space between the plates:
interresting formulation:

R = rho * L / S

with rho = resistivity (in Ohm.m or Ohm.cm)
The space of the plates (m or cm)
S = area (m² or cm²)

L = R * S / rho = 0.22 * 10 000 / 667 = 3.3 cm

where are the 667 ohms / cm coming from?

a priori, a normally mineralized water with a conductivity between 2000 and 4000 Ohms / cm, a pure water is greater than 30 000 Ohms / cm, a little acid can easily lower the conductivity to 500 Ohms / cm.

which becomes with stainless steel plates of 25x25cm
L = R * S / rho = 0.22x625 / 500 = 0.27 cm COOL ! I was considering 3mm

Food side:

In practice, the average amplitude is of little interest and is not used. On the other hand, the root mean square (RMS) value for Root Mean Square is universally adopted to measure the value of AC voltages, both in voltage and in acoustics.

So, if the alternating current that comes out of your household socket is given for 220 Volts to 50 Hertz, it's actually 220 Volts effective, which means that the current actually fluctuates 50 times per second between -311 and + 311 Volts, representing 311 Peak Volts and 622 Peak-to-Peak Volts. (220v x root (2) = 311v)


this current when straightened will provide me with efficient pulsed 220V +

the envisaged diode bridge is this one: http://www.conrad.fr/redresseurs_mono_t ... 975_218557

I would only use demineralized or osmosis water
remains to choose the acid, NAOH? Where can it be found?

Yep!
I would have in principle + 220V redeployed without condo at the beginning (311 / root 2), or rather the 240V in fact

For protection I already have a circuit breaker + 30mA differential that should prevent me to stay stuck (you never know if)

at these voltages the chemical yield should be of the order of 60%, and the more the T ° increases, the more the yield increases

Correction following the Response of Com p
PFFF Okay then, let's take 1L (1kg to 20 ° C) water

1mole H2O gives 1mole of H2 + 1 / 2mole of O2

molar mass of H2O 18g / mol
molar mass of H 1.008g / mol and H2 2.016 g / mol
molar mass of O 16g / mol and O2 32g / mol

1000g of water give 1000 / 18 = 55,555 mol of H2O
be broken down into
55.555 x 1 = 55.555 mol of H2 is 55.555x2g =111.111g of H2
et
55.555 x 1 / 2 = 27.777 Mol of O2 is 27.777x32g =888.888g from O2

Good, and after?
PV = n RT where V = nRT / P

p is the pressure (in pascal);
V is the volume occupied by the gas (in cubic meters);
n is the quantity of material, in mole
N is the number of particles
R is the universal constant of perfect gases
R = 8,314 472 J · K-1 · mol-1
we actually have R = NA · kB where NA is the Avogadro number (6,022 × 1023) and kB is the Boltzmann constant (1,38 × 10-23);
T is the absolute temperature (in Kelvin).

OK then
V of H2 = 55.555x 8,314 472 x (20 + 273) / 101 325 = 1.3356 m3 (1336L what)

and to check

V of O2 = 27.777 x 8,314 472 x (20 + 273) / 101 325 = 0.668m3 (668 L what)

I also know that: Rho of H2 = 0,08988 kg.m-3 and Rho of O2 = 1,43.10-3 g.cm-3 to 20 ° C and http://lycees.ac-rouen.fr/galilee/oxygene.htm

For hydrogen:
the PCS is: 12,745 106 J / m3 is 286 kJ / mole
And the PCI is worth: 10,8 106 J / m3 is 242 kJ / mole

Either about 2h production with 2200W efficient or 0.5L / h
Interesting to measure the efficiency of electrolysis

source: http://uuu.enseirb.fr/~dondon/devdurabl ... stible.htm
3.3 Rounded energy balance of the decomposition of a water molecule:

H2O -> → H2 + ½ O2

The H2O water molecule consists of 2 OH bonds and each bond has a molar energy of 460 kJ (cf table § 2.2.4) which represents 2 x 460 = 920 kJ for one mole of water.

The breaking of the OH bonds of the water molecules for one mole of water requires the contribution of 920 kJ / mole (left side of the equation). However, the recombination of the hydrogen atoms H into H2 (gaseous hydrogen) produces an energy that comes, in the balance sheet, as a deduction from the previous one:

HH → H2 This recomposition brings 432 kJ / mole.

Likewise for the recomposition of the oxygen atoms:

½ OO → ½ O2 This reaction releases ½ x 494 kJ ie 247 kJ / mol.

The energy consumed for the dissociation operation of the water is finally:

920 - 432 - 247 = 241 kJ / mole

Thus the manufacture of 2 g of hydrogen by cracking of one mole of water (without taking into account the losses) requires the contribution of 241 kJ, ie 120.500 kJ to manufacture 1 kg of hydrogen.

I have a question about diet:
With the bridge rectifier alone, I would have 311V + 100Hertz crest rectified, with sinusoids passing through zero, I am far from having a continuous voltage 2.2V continuous on my cells, and below 1.8V on my cells, I would produce nothing, and above I would have losses by Joule effect, so only a small part of the current will be exploited ...


the stack effect of the oxidation reduction H2 and O2, is 1.23V I think.

So I'll have to put a condo to smooth the tension

[Capt_Maloche]

And then:

SO, since I need a capacitor to smooth the current, I plan to create a ... to water

The capacity of a flat capacitor
C = epsilon S / e

with epsilon: electrical permittivity of the insulation between the plates (of memory for the water, it is 80 x epsilon0 (of the vacuum))

S plate surface
e distant between the plates

Stored energy: 1 / 2 C U²
with U in volt potential difference between 2 plates.

Limitation: must not exceed the breakdown voltage, or ionization of the dielectric. For water, I have no data in mind, but it must be: keyword "electric field of ionization"
The voltage = field x distance (here e)

Here is the permittivity of air or vacuum (almost identical)


Another thing: you really need a very pure water: otherwise, it will not be an insulator, but an electrolyte that will discharge the condo by eating energy by Joule effect.

And here are the relative permittivity ...
water = 80 x the vacuum, which means that the electrostatic forces are divided by 80 and that many ionic solids are dissolved there ...

source:
Physical
From Eugene Hecht, Tamer Becherrawy, Joel Martin
Translated by Tamer Becherrawy
Collaborator Joël Martin
Posted by De Boeck University, 2007
ISBN 2744500186, 9782744500183
1336 pages

Hey, and if anyone wants to calculate me the size of the condo I need to smooth this current 10A, I would be grateful

[Capt_Maloche]

And I was there:

Here is the rectified CHALUM'EAU:



I'm still wondering how to make the tightness between cells

I think to mount them in silicone, brushing a thickness with the brush on the bottom and the sides, or better, with the resin

[Christophe]

Happy to see you again motivated for this project and econology!

Hidden content

You must be registered and logged in on this forum to see the hidden content.

[Capt_Maloche]

Yes, but I prefer from a blank page
in addition this kit is made to settle in a vehicle, a gas plant for 100L / h

To send directly water vapor ... more direct to do the same thing

There was also that, a nice product, portable plasma torch but with a lot of "flaws"
http://souder-braser-decouper.com/details-techniques/

power supply: 220 volts
frequency: AC 50 to 60 Hz
power: up to 3,5 KW
device dimensions: 38 19 x 14 CM
total weight of the set: 12 kg
Weight of the unit: 8 kg
Torches weight: 0.500 kg
plasma flame temperature: 8000 ° C maximum
plasma cutting up to 10 mm thickness
consumption liters / hour: 160ml / 1 hour
time of use of filled torches: 20 to 25 minutes
duration of use of the nozzle (the nozzle): 20 hours
duration of use of the cathode: 40 hours
liquid used for the cutting process: water
liquid used for the welding and soldering process: water + alcohol (all ethanol-based products)
single-phase power supply from: 100 to 253 V
supply frequency: 50 - 60 Hz
maximum power supply: 220 V 3,5 KW
minimum power supply: 110 V 2.0 KW
cutting capacity of ordinary steel: 10 mm
ordinary steel welding capacity: from 0,4 mm to 50 mm
operating time with a filled torch: from 20 to 30 minutes
torch pressure of 0,4 - 1,2 kg
power unit dimensions: L 380 mm x H 190 mm XN 140 mm
torch dry weight: 0,500 kg
power cable length of power plant: 2 m
length of the torch cable: 3 m

[Christophe]

Yes, but I prefer from a blank page
in addition this kit is made to settle in a vehicle, a gas plant for 100L / h

To send directly water vapor ... more direct to do the same thing

Yes because 100L / h is just anything We know that HHO is pipo ... (except maybe for fouling)

Yes for water ... but it requires more regulation ...

I think on the contrary that it is not uninteresting to leave on an existing base ... history not to waste time to reinvent the wheel !!

Improving something existing is always easier, right?

[Capt_Maloche]

Am reading the whole subject again
I had already summarized on page 22

Vi Vi,

Here is a good summary of the project

it's on the previous pages: here manufacturing-torch-a-hydrogen-or gas-to-brown-t3170-30.html

The : manufacturing-torch-a-hydrogen-or gas-to-brown-t3170-60.html

Re there: manufacturing-torch-a-hydrogen-or gas-to-brown-t3170-80.html

Re Here: manufacturing-torch-a-hydrogen-or gas-to-brown-t3170-100.html



Here is the rectified CHALUM'EAU:


To conclude:

I'm going back to memory on the feeding of the cells and I gather the scattered data:

these are 110 2.2V voltage divider mounted cells that will be installed for a contemplated gas flow rate of 650 L / h and 2400W consumed

Space between the plates:
interresting formulation:
where are the 667 ohms / cm coming from?

a priori, a normally mineralized water with a conductivity between 2000 and 4000 Ohms / cm, a pure water is greater than 30 000 Ohms / cm, a little acid can easily lower the conductivity to 500 Ohms / cm.

which becomes with stainless steel plates of 25x25cm
L = R * S / rho = 0.22x625 / 500 = 0.27 cm COOL ! I was considering 3mm

Food side:

In practice, the average amplitude is of little interest and is not used. On the other hand, the root mean square (RMS) value for Root Mean Square is universally adopted to measure the value of AC voltages, both in voltage and in acoustics.

So, if the alternating current that comes out of your household socket is given for 220 Volts to 50 Hertz, it's actually 220 Volts effective, which means that the current actually fluctuates 50 times per second between -311 and + 311 Volts, representing 311 Peak Volts and 622 Peak-to-Peak Volts. (220v x root (2) = 311v)


this current when straightened will provide me with efficient pulsed 220V +

the envisaged diode bridge is this one: http://www.conrad.fr/redresseurs_mono_t ... 975_218557

I would only use demineralized or osmosis water
remains to choose the acid, NAOH? Where can it be found?

Yep!
I would have in principle + 220V redeployed without condo at the beginning (311 / root 2), or rather the 240V in fact

For protection I already have a circuit breaker + 30mA differential that should prevent me to stay stuck (you never know if)

at these voltages the chemical yield should be of the order of 60%, and the more the T ° increases, the more the yield increases

Correction following the Response of Com p
PFFF Okay then, let's take 1L (1kg to 20 ° C) water

1mole H2O gives 1mole of H2 + 1 / 2mole of O2

molar mass of H2O 18g / mol
molar mass of H 1.008g / mol and H2 2.016 g / mol
molar mass of O 16g / mol and O2 32g / mol

1000g of water give 1000 / 18 = 55,555 mol of H2O
be broken down into
55.555 x 1 = 55.555 mol of H2 is 55.555x2g =111.111g of H2
et
55.555 x 1 / 2 = 27.777 Mol of O2 is 27.777x32g =888.888g from O2

Good, and after?
PV = n RT where V = nRT / P

p is the pressure (in pascal);
V is the volume occupied by the gas (in cubic meters);
n is the quantity of material, in mole
N is the number of particles
R is the universal constant of perfect gases
R = 8,314 472 J · K-1 · mol-1
we actually have R = NA · kB where NA is the Avogadro number (6,022 × 1023) and kB is the Boltzmann constant (1,38 × 10-23);
T is the absolute temperature (in Kelvin).

OK then
V of H2 = 55.555x 8,314 472 x (20 + 273) / 101 325 = 1.3356 m3 (1336L what)

and to check

V of O2 = 27.777 x 8,314 472 x (20 + 273) / 101 325 = 0.668m3 (668 L what)

I also know that: Rho of H2 = 0,08988 kg.m-3 and Rho of O2 = 1,43.10-3 g.cm-3 to 20 ° C and http://lycees.ac-rouen.fr/galilee/oxygene.htm

For hydrogen:
the PCS is: 12,745 106 J / m3 is 286 kJ / mole
And the PCI is worth: 10,8 106 J / m3 is 242 kJ / mole

Either about 2h production with 2200W efficient or 0.5L / h
Interesting to measure the efficiency of electrolysis

I have a question about diet:
With the bridge rectifier alone, I would have 311V + 100Hertz crest rectified, with sinusoids passing through zero, I am far from having a continuous voltage 2.2V continuous on my cells, and below 1.8V on my cells, I would produce nothing, and above I would have losses by Joule effect, so only a small part of the current will be exploited ...


the stack effect of the oxidation reduction H2 and O2, is 1.23V I think.

So I'll have to put a condo to smooth the tension

SO, since I need a capacitor to smooth the current, I plan to create a ... to water

The capacity of a flat capacitor
C = epsilon S / e

with epsilon: electrical permittivity of the insulation between the plates (of memory for the water, it is 80 x epsilon0 (of the vacuum))

S plate surface
e distant between the plates

Stored energy: 1 / 2 C U²
with U in volt potential difference between 2 plates.

Limitation: must not exceed the breakdown voltage, or ionization of the dielectric. For water, I have no data in mind, but it must be: keyword "electric field of ionization"
The voltage = field x distance (here e)

Here is the permittivity of air or vacuum (almost identical)


Another thing: you really need a very pure water: otherwise, it will not be an insulator, but an electrolyte that will discharge the condo by eating energy by Joule effect.

And here are the relative permittivity ...
water = 80 x the vacuum, which means that the electrostatic forces are divided by 80 and that many ionic solids are dissolved there ...

source:
Physical
From Eugene Hecht, Tamer Becherrawy, Joel Martin
Translated by Tamer Becherrawy
Collaborator Joël Martin
Posted by De Boeck University, 2007
ISBN 2744500186, 9782744500183
1336 pages

Hey, and if anyone wants to calculate me the size of the condo I need to smooth this current 10A, I would be grateful

Yes, because for now I would not smooth the peaks of the rectified current,

as soon as my crobard will be completed (especially on security), I would start the realization of the tool to see if I do not have too many losses by Joule effect

FYI, the reserve above the Chalum'Eau is only for ease of use, to keep a constant wet surface of the cells and not to constantly fill the generator.

The purpose of this assembly is indeed to allow the welding of tube or large steel bar, 650L / h is a flow that would also allow the cutting of steel

Temperatures of the most common flames:
• Oxy-acétylène3100 ° C
• Oxy-propane2830 ° C
• Oxy-natural gas2730 ° C

Here is the shape of an oxy acetylenic flame


The flame of the stoichiometric mixture H2 + O2 is unlikely to produce a stinger, which makes it likely that backfiring will occur in the piping if the pressure / velocity is not high enough

The temperature should be higher than acetylenic oxy
of the order of 5000 ° C seems to me

[chatelot16]

https://www.usinages.com/threads/genera ... 334/page-8

[Capt_Maloche]

https://www.usinages.com/threads/generateur-doxy-hydrogene.106334/page-8

Funny, they refer to econology