Thorium: the future of nuclear power?

[Bardal]

Oops, I forgot the blow of the merger.

Here too, we can clearly see what was intended to be said initially: "it is probably more profitable in the short term to invest in a thorium sector, which would quickly protect us from energy shortages for several centuries, than to bet everything on nuclear fusion ". This is indeed quite audible in a context of budgetary arbitrage where funds are scarce.

But from there to turning that into "thorium energy would be so interesting that it would surpass nuclear fusion", I find there is a serious incompetence of journalism. Is it not?

[izentrop]

Hello,

This text is astounding in its naivety as a child discovering the absence of Santa Claus; what did she think, at last, this young chemist, of this history of thorium? That it was enough to strike in his hands to magically solve all the problems?

You are very severe, it only translates a text of 2014 written by professionals of the atom, which I also quoted https://whatisnuclear.com/thorium-myths.html

And then the arguments quoted were largely those of Arte 's (confusionist) documentary quoted at the beginning of this topic.

We can clearly see the young journalist's position, but as the arguments are "sourced", we can make up our minds with the scientific articles cited at the bottom of the page.
This is the principle of the articles in this review. A serious concept, I find.

With the culture of secrecy in this area, it is difficult to get an idea. In any case, thank you for your clarifications.

Do you know if it is a problem of resistance of the materials which delay this technology (apart from Nicolas Hulot)?

The docu in question:

[izentrop]

Drought in the United Kingdom drastically reduces the energy production of wind turbines https://www.earth.com/news/uk-wind-drou ... ne-energy/

This month, power generation dropped by 40% and was 30% lower than the amount of wind energy generated last year, even with new wind farms and advances in wind power technology in the United Kingdom. United.

Last year, wind power provided 15% of UK power, twice as much as coal, but this year, these numbers dropped to less than 2% on June 2.

[Bardal]

The problems still to be solved in the fused salt-thorium sectors are essentially technological problems which revolve around:

- the materials of the tank and accessories resistant to salts melted at these temperatures

- optimization of extraction and reprocessing processes during operation

- dissolution of thorium oxides in acids

- optimization of thermal regulation

- concrete study of the various options of waste incineration ...

Above all, it lacks the construction of a prototype or demonstrator to accumulate concrete experiences; the thorium-molten salt industry has many variations and only multiple trials (at the international level) will allow the relevant choices. There is no mythology in there, but simply a rational and scientific approach (which by the way is anything but simple). The worst situation is the one we have known for twenty years, under the pressure of anti-nuclear, semi-blocking situation, without clear choice and with various uncertainties about the future; it has already cost Superphénix and a few tens of million ...

[sen-no-sen]

Is that so ? Which engineers and where?

You answer yourself to the question:

and that can be summed up as follows: the CEA put everything in the fast breeder Ur, relying on huge stocks of 238 uranium and on the plutonium in reserve, which led to Phénix, SuperPhénix and Astrid (and to the use of sodium as a coolant); on the other hand, a number of researchers and engineers, some of them minority but some of whom belong to the CNRS, are proposing a thorium-molten salt industry.

As usual it is the constraint that will guide the technological choices, we talk about it in ten years?

[moinsdewatt]

I posted this on forum oleocene:

An experiment on the molten salt thorium reactor and some myths about thorium reactors

August 26, 2017

An experiment in the Netherlands will test the design of a molten salt thorium reactor. Beyond the announcement, we take the opportunity to debunk some myths around the thorium reactor.

Scientists from the Nuclear Research and Consultancy Group (NRG) in Petten, The Netherlands, began the first experiment of molten salt thorium reactor. There are only a few places in the world where you can do these tests. With this experience, Europe has just entered the Thorium energy race.

The SALt Irradiation Experiment TN (SALIENT) experiment was prepared in collaboration with the European Commission Joint Research Center-ITU and consists of a series of experiments with successive stages rather than a single exploration.
The first phase of SALIENT will focus on creating a cleaner reactor fuel. It is done by removing the noble metals from the thorium fuel when it is converted to uranium through fission. In the second phase, the researchers hope to test the resilience of common materials that are used in the construction of molten salt thorium reactors or Thorium Molten Salt Reactors (TMSR). If the materials are resistant to corrosion and high temperatures, then it could reduce the costs of nuclear energy. Future phases are expected to test new materials that have shown some potential in the past. There may be mentioned Hastelloy which is an alloy of nickel and TZM (titanium-zirconium-molybdenum).
.................

https://actualite.housseniawriting.com/ ... ium/23318/

[izentrop]

I posted this on forum oleocene

No reaction ...

Future phases are expected to test new materials that have shown some potential in the past. There may be mentioned Hastelloy which is an alloy of nickel and TZM (titanium-zirconium-molybdenum).

In view of the current news, as long as the resistant materials have not been found or invented, we will remain in neutral and even more for the merger, since the constraints are thousands of times higher.
In the meantime, REP projects are gaining momentum.

[Bardal]

No, it is not so simple ... Resistant materials have been used (and for a long time), but they have their limits in terms of temperature and in terms of irradiation.

It is to widen these limits that experiments are made; such alloy that will suit for a temperature of 500 ° C (this is only a hypothesis ...) will be poorly adapted to 650 ° C, or such other resistant to thermal neutrons will be more excellent with fast neutrons. The hastelloy, which is an alloy formerly known, apparently suited in the United States in the 60 years (moderate graphite reactor having operated 4 years, at low temperature), it is not sure that it is appropriate to an unmoderated fast neutron reactor operating at a higher temperature and expected to last 50 or 60 years; it seems (subject to all reservations) that we are moving towards ferrous alloys protected by a layer of ceramic ...

What is annoying in this text that you use Izentrop is that it is a text written by an English journalist (so already, no doubt, a "redacted" version of what the researchers said. ) very poorly translated by a French journalist, who obviously does not understand much; one can hardly speak of "information" ...

[GuyGadebois]

China anticipates thorium mining for 2024

March 28, 2014

The race to exploit thorium is increasing and China will not be slow to put pressure on the competition. It has indeed come to advance 15 in its forecast of equipment for nuclear reactors 4th generation based on this ore.

The day the Chinese market this kind of power plant, EDF / CEA / Areva will be able to get dressed and we will end up with time bombs to dismantle (good luck) throughout the territory. The price of the KW / h, which is already exorbitant (because of the costs not listed on the bills) will explode even more, making military nuclear (and yes, this choice of plant was decided by the military to make the plutonium bombs , without consultation any ignorant people at that time) who is our model, the most expensive way ever invented to produce juice.

[Bardal]

Oh la la la la...

What an incredible mic-mac of counter rumors ...
This is probably why the French kWh is the cheapest in Europe ...

Mobilize your intelligence on bullshit ... not mobilize your ignorance for bullshit ...