Nuclear waste

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C moa
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Re: Nuclear waste




by C moa » 17/05/19, 10:17

Janic wrote:superphenix who could have boom!
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superph%C ... r_incident.
It looks like arms traders who discuss on which one or which are the most effective considering, American way, that these are justified for reasons of safety going from the simple grenade to the atomic bomb ... for the peace! of course!
But accidents such as Chernobyl and Fukushima are like heart alerts in an individual and that makes him believe that a pacemaker will allow him to continue in the path that caused these alerts and prevent him from death, while he acts as a reprieve until the next alert that will be the last.

Good Janic,
For information, relaying objective technical information does not necessarily mean being pro nuclear. To be transparent with you, I am an energy company in the broad sense. I worked successively in nuclear, refining and upstream petroleum and for 2 years I work to develop a solution for the production of hydrogen in a biological way. My journey is that of a technician who allows many people, including you, to continue to enjoy life without asking too many questions about where my oil, my gas or my electricity comes from !!!

As for SuperPhénix and the associated industrial risk, this is what I can tell you:
- Do you accept that there are cars more reliable than others? Do you feel safer in a lada or in a volvo? To think that nuclear power is nuclear and therefore that dangerousness is the same everywhere is a gross error. Japanese and Russian technologies are not the same as French.
- Do you also accept that there are drivers who are more careful than others? In the context of Chernobyl, it is almost industrial terrorism. Do you know that the accident occurred because the operator wanted to do lab work with an industrial tool? They bypassed 4 major safeties which led to the accident. In France such a situation is unthinkable as there are safeguards.
- Do you finally accept that there are more coercive and more competent gendarmes than others? Japanese safety authorities were surpassed by TEPCO. In France, IRSN has nothing to do with delaying an EPR project. Its job is to protect the population and I am the first delighted.

Otherwise, a more general remark, if you want to have the risk 0, you have to delete almost everything !!
- Chemistry, the Bhopal accident has a health consequence equivalent to Techernobyl. AZF is about thirty dead and 5000 injured;
- Oil, WHO announces between 40 and 50000 premature deaths per year in France + environmental impact;
- The internet which consumes as much energy as the air on a global level (30% of the internet is used for porn by the way ...);
- Wind power, of which we do not know how to recycle the pale;
- The PV that amounts to shaving mountains to extract rare metals ...
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Re: Nuclear waste




by Ahmed » 17/05/19, 13:39

I see that your last paragraph endorses the incompatibility between nature and industry: we are progressing! : Wink:
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Re: Nuclear waste




by Janic » 17/05/19, 14:06

I feel that there will be a job!
Good Janic,
For information, relaying objective technical information does not necessarily mean being pro-nuclear. [*]
To be transparent with you, I am an energy company in the broad sense. I worked successively in nuclear, refining and upstream petroleum and for 2 years I have been working to develop a solution for the production of hydrogen in a biological way. My journey is that of a technician who allows many people, including you, to continue to enjoy life without asking too many questions about where my oil, my gas or my electricity comes from !!!
I am, or rather I was, also a technician " a technician who allows many people, including you, to continue enjoying life WITHOUT TOO MANY QUESTIONS where does my oil, gas or electricity come from !!! In other areas than you!
But, this is technique for technique, because we don't catch flies with honey, but M .... and strong of my professional deformation, I am and I remain admiring concerning our imagination, to us the creators, and to our achievements that have brought us to the brink.
This is the stack side of the coin which is called the advantages provided, but like any coin there is also a face side and if you look at a coin, the two sides are just not alike; so you also have to weigh its drawbacks.
As for SuperPhénix and the associated industrial risk, this is what I can tell you:
- Do you accept that there are cars more reliable than others? Do you feel safer in a lada or in a volvo?
It turns out that I worked in the automotive sector and indeed it is not THAT of a feeling safety, not from one manufacturer to another, but intrinsically to the automobile itself. However, so-called safety systems are only effective at low speed, but during an accident, from the front, at 130 km / h and more, all these means are no longer used for anything.
To think that nuclear power is nuclear and therefore that dangerousness is the same everywhere is a gross error. Japanese and Russian technologies are not the same as French.
Again, this is not a technology, but of the product itself during major accidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima which are only preambles for the following ones, statistically inevitable.
- Do you also accept that there are drivers who are more careful than others? In the context of Chernobyl, it is almost industrial terrorism. Do you know that the accident occurred because the operator wanted to do lab work with an industrial tool? They bypassed 4 major safeties which led to the accident. In France such a situation is unthinkable as there are safeguards.
If you are a real technician, like me, you know perfectly well that whatever the accidents, it is that these crazy guards were not sufficient or diverted by events impossible to take into account. It is not enough to cross your fingers to conjure a future fate and it is not enough to invoke that France would be the model of absolute security, there are lots of other plants and its products around the world.
However, it is not a model of this or that country and its technology, but of the damage that it has caused to date and that no one can deny.
- Do you finally accept that there are more coercive and more competent gendarmes than others? Japanese safety authorities were surpassed by TEPCO. In France, IRSN has nothing to do with delaying an EPR project. Its job is to protect the population and I am the first delighted.
This is wishful thinking, not a reality.
Otherwise, a more general remark, if you want to have the risk 0, you have to delete almost everything !!
Well done, you got it right!
- Chemistry, the Bhopal accident has a health consequence equivalent to Techernobyl. AZF is about thirty dead and 5000 injured;
https://ressources.uved.fr/Grains_Module3/Bhopal/site/html/Bhopal/Bhopal.html
But there are all the other sectors using chemistry, the worst of all of which are the pharmaceutical and food industry which intoxicate and kill, much more than Bhopal, but it is slower, quieter, but inevitable.
- Oil, WHO announces between 40 and 50000 premature deaths per year in France + environmental impact;
Of course ! it also has 70.000 deaths from tobacco and 41.000 from alcohol each year in France and 146.000 from cancer and 150 / 170.000 deaths from cardiovascular disease. So much more than petroleum or with the help of petroleum precisely which does not pollute the atmosphere, but which also surely and efficiently kills and nuclear can do nothing but make the situation even worse.
The internet which consumes as much energy as air worldwide (30% of the internet is used for porn by the way ...)
Absolutely ! and for decades, centuries, societies have done without it, one should not confuse an existing system with its need to exist.
- Wind power, of which we do not know how to recycle the pale;
Neither nuclear waste
- The PV that amounts to shaving mountains to extract rare metals ...
Who currently only serve to justify our way of life of the wealthy nations
and you think you're not pronuk?

[*] in any case it is well imitated? Whether we like it or not, we are all biased by choice, by culture, by habit, by conditioning.
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Re: Nuclear waste




by sicetaitsimple » 17/05/19, 14:37

Ahmed wrote:I see that your last paragraph endorses the incompatibility between nature and industry: we are progressing! : Wink:


I have an idea! : Idea:
Suppress the man! De facto it will remove the industry, nature will become what it will become but we will not give a damn because by hypothesis we will no longer exist. Not stupid, right? 8)
It’s downright antispecism 2.0, I’m proud to have almost invented it! : Lol:
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Re: Nuclear waste




by Ahmed » 17/05/19, 15:02

I find this idea, say, a little extremist for my taste! :D It is for this reason that I support the positions that you know.
For my part, although very psychically colonized by industrialism : Mrgreen:, however, it is not to the point of conditioning the existence of our species to this factor (which history clearly indicates).
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Re: Nuclear waste




by Janic » 17/05/19, 15:04

I have an idea! : Idea:
Suppress the man! De facto it will remove the industry, nature will become what it will become but we will not give a damn because by hypothesis we will no longer exist. Not stupid, right? 8)
It’s downright antispecism 2.0, I’m proud to have almost invented it!
you arrive too late, others invented it before you ... and it works!
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Re: Nuclear waste




by sicetaitsimple » 17/05/19, 15:25

Ahmed wrote:I find this idea, say, a little extremist for my taste! :D


There you go! What a mouth! : Lol:
Kind regards.
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Re: Nuclear waste




by izentrop » 17/05/19, 15:52

We have to get out of the imagination.
Unlike industrial chemical waste containing toxic elements such as arsenic, lead, cadmium, mercury which has an infinite life, nuclear waste contains radionuclides which disappear over time, even if, for some of them them it takes a very long time. Besides, the longer the radionuclides live, the less dangerous they are! Indeed, who says long lifespan says low decay rate. For example iodine 129 which has a period of 15 million years is 700 million times less radioactive than iodine 131 whose period is only 8 days and which has been responsible for Chernobyl thyroid cancer . However, the public often imagines that the two iodines are the same and have the same radiological consequences!
Current waste, composed of fission products and minor actinides embedded in glass, must be cooled for a few tens to a hundred years. They are stored above or below ground, under surveillance, without any consequences for public health having ever been observed. The current practice of surface storage is generally satisfactory, although it can be further improved, as long as nuclear power production continues.
The rest is just as interesting https://lenergeek.com/2019/04/30/dechet ... ifenecker/
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C moa
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Re: Nuclear waste




by C moa » 17/05/19, 16:32

Janic wrote:I feel that there will be a job!

Too easy ... I knew I was going to make you react. I do not have time to repeat each point and honestly it does not interest me, so I will go to what seems to me the main thing.
I am, or rather I was, also a technician " a technician who allows many people, including you, to continue enjoying life WITHOUT TOO MANY QUESTIONS where does my oil, gas or electricity come from !!! In other areas than you!
But, this is technique for technique, because we don't catch flies with honey, but M .... and strong of my professional deformation, I am and I remain admiring concerning our imagination, to us the creators, and to our achievements that have brought us to the brink.

Well, that's the substance of the discussion it seems to me. Many people said they were against shale gas, so a law was made to ban their exploitation. Just as it was forbidden to extend national oil production beyond 2040 but it is without asking the question of where does the 1,6 M barrels that we import EVERY day come from? God does! Our national production is 15/20 barrels per day. I confirm they don't care where it comes from as long as there are.
How many of these French people have reduced their consumption of gas or fuels? How many carpool daily? Have reviewed the insulation of their house .... Nothing that is not accessible to everyone ...
And a certain number of them explain that it is the wicked multinationals who exploit the countries of the third world ... The truth is that it is us the consumers who exploit them, as one exploits the farmers when one buys tomatoes that come from Egypt because they are 10 cts cheaper ....

- Do you accept that there are cars more reliable than others? Do you feel safer in a lada or in a volvo?
It turns out that I worked in the automotive sector and indeed it is not THAT of a feeling safety, not from one manufacturer to another, but intrinsically to the automobile itself. However, so-called safety systems are only effective at low speed, but during an accident, from the front, at 130 km / h and more, all these means are no longer used for anything.
[/ quote] Well, either, I don't agree. Accidents at 130 km / h on the front are very very rare and indeed fatal. But if the kinetic energy stored is the same the control of this energy is different if the car is equipped with an ABS, a belt with adaptive pretensioner, an airbag or an adaptive cruise control or even an obstacle detector. We cannot say that it is not useful and that we are no safer than in an old Lada or in an old 205. Do you think that the decline in deaths and injuries over the last 40 years is not due than the human factor?

To think that nuclear power is nuclear and therefore that dangerousness is the same everywhere is a gross error. Japanese and Russian technologies are not the same as French.
Again, this is not a technology, but of the product itself during major accidents like Chernobyl and Fukushima which are only preambles for the following ones, statistically inevitable.
Statistics certainly, but the reality is that you are more likely to die on the road or in your pool than because of a nuclear accident or even a traditional SEVESO. Indeed, we rely on statistics to control our risks and overall it has been fairly effective so far.

If you are a real technician, like me, you know perfectly well that whatever the accidents, it is that these crazy guards were not sufficient or diverted by events impossible to take into account. It is not enough to cross your fingers to conjure a future fate and it is not enough to invoke that France would be the model of absolute security, there are lots of other plants and its products around the world.
For now, industrial security is my specialty, I would like my job to be just to cross my fingers .... It really takes all the people who work in these industries for badgers ... I have not even want to comment !! and this comment includes your comments about the people of IRSN of course.
Who currently only serve to justify our way of life of the wealthy nations
and what do we do then?
and you think you're not pronuk?
neither for nor against, on the contrary !!
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Re: Nuclear waste




by C moa » 17/05/19, 18:06

But there are all the other sectors using chemistry, the worst of all of which are the pharmaceutical and food industry which intoxicate and kill, much more than Bhopal, but it is slower, quieter, but inevitable.
- Oil, WHO announces between 40 and 50000 premature deaths per year in France + environmental impact;
Of course ! it also has 70.000 deaths from tobacco and 41.000 from alcohol each year in France and 146.000 from cancer and 150 / 170.000 deaths from cardiovascular disease. So much more than petroleum or with the help of petroleum precisely which does not pollute the atmosphere, but which also surely and efficiently kills and nuclear can do nothing but make the situation even worse.

For tobacco it is rather 85000 dead but let's move on. A question burns my lips if all these industries are so deadly why focus on nuclear? This technology is very far from making these scores, it would be known !! Remember that we are talking about annual victims.
We should also remember that most of the nuclear incidents which resulted in victims took place in a hospital environment.

What I know above all in a certain way (even the IPCC says it) it is that nuclear makes it possible to produce carbon-free energy in mass and for cheap !!
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