Save the planet with the H2: pee in the jar

[Obamot]

In another thread, there are some who talk about Knaki Herta: pure provocation, I don't answer!

no need to drink too much beer to piss more ... it could make more water volume without increasing the volume of urea

Volume, duration ...? Volume, duration ...?

I see you coming, you aim for decrease:… "Drink less to pee less!" »

Sarko, if you hear us!

[Obamot]

Subject relaunch:

It is not necessarily pleasant to talk about it, but it is a fact often overlooked, urine has interesting ecological powers. It can also be considered as a renewable energy source, allowing in particular to charge gadgets or computers.

In 2010, researchers from Heriot-Watt University in the United Kingdom developed a prototype fuel cell that can produce energy from urine. Without generating any polluting by-product, the prototype can convert the chemical energy contained in urea into electricity and water, which can also be reused.

Thus, the urine could be used to generate electricity in submarines or for isolated peoples in the middle of the desert, for example. The first tests have given positive results, producing small amounts of energy, with promising potential.

Human urine is one of the richest sources of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium for plants, and its assimilation is perfect. After testing the use of urine on a plantation, Finnish researchers have found it to be an excellent, abundant and inexpensive organic fertilizer.
In a study published in the Journal of Agricultural and Food Chemistry, the growth of two cabbage plantations was compared, one being sprayed with urine. This gave slightly larger sprouts.

This month, a published study shows that urine may be able to capture greenhouse gases like CO2. The author of the study, Professor Manuel Jiménez Aguilar, of the Agrarian Research and Training Institute of Andalusia, says that urea decomposes at room temperature, producing, among other substances, ammonia which can bind to CO2 to form ammonium bicarbonate.
According to the researcher, the mixture made from urine could reduce overall emissions by 1% per year. The next step is to create prototypes to filter exhaust pipes and factory chimneys.

Source: http://www.neo-planete.com/2013/01/10/l ... e-energie/

Yet another thesis from another British University on the subject:

- “when the urea is heated with steam, a synthesis gas rich in simple hydrogen is formed, with product concentrations of: 60% of H2 [...] Relatively mild temperatures between 500 ° C and 700 ° C would be required for optimal steam conversion "

Seriously, and recently we talk about it here:

Hydrogen from urea: a novel energy source

This research presents a viability assessment of using urea as an energy vector. Urea is attractive in comparison to the chemicals previously considered for supplying
hydrogen since it is non-toxic, non-flammable and stable at room temperature and atmospheric pressure. Urea is cheap to produce and has an existing manufacturing infrastructure, but it also has a huge untapped natural resource, of which this study found that the knowledge to extract was technically attainable. Modeling predicted that
when urea is heated with steam, a simple hydrogen-rich synthesis gas is formed, with product concentrations of ca. 60% H2, 20% CO2 and 20% N2. Relatively mild temperatures of 500 ° C ≤ T ≤ 700 ° C were predicted for optimum steam conversion and H2 yield. Experimental steam reforming in this temperature range using a fixed bed catalytic flow reactor was developed specifically for aqueous urea fuel using a novel drop-feed and passively cooled inlet system. Steady state operation created a hydrogen rich syngas with a composition closely matching that predicted at equilibrium. A nickel catalyst was found to be effective and robust for the process, permitting repeated cycling
without observed degradation. Characterization of the catalyst revealed urea steam reforming to be clean, with no evidence of carbon formation apparent. The experimental
study used urea solutions in the steam to urea (S: C) range of 3: 1 to 7: 1. Preliminary analyzes of these mixtures confirmed that the fuel would be unaffected by isomerization and decomposition prior to reactor input. Further preliminary experimentation of kinetic mechanisms confirmed that thermal urea conversion alone would be at worst 99.9% within 0.5 seconds at T ≥ 500 ° C. Simultaneous thermal analyzes explored a greater than previously reported range of evolved species produced by thermolysis of urea and urea solution in the presence of nickel catalyst.

http://etheses.whiterose.ac.uk/2129/

[porschecollec]

for those who doubt the interest of the process, recall of the article giving the equations and the measurements:
http://www.suttonfruit.com/pics/urea_electrolysis.pdf
no time to develop the subject, too much work. I think that here people are sufficiently educated not to stupidly apply a pseudo-equation of conservation of energy (we forget the internal production, damn it then ...) and to deduce that the electrolysis of urine consumes what its combustion produces.
I keep the urine electrolyser in all the candidate modules for the engine improvement system that we are going to build.
Any discussion on the subject or any other concerning cracking / improving physical or chemical combustion interests me.

[chatelot16]

urea electrolysis yes ... but urine is not urea, it is mainly water, a little urea and a lot of m .... to clog the electrolyser

[porschecollec]

I'm not a chemist, but the guys who wrote "Urea electrolysis: direct hydrogen production from urine" don't sound like kidding. Haven't had time to read and check the article yet, just read diagonally, but they consider urine okay. So this is a track to investigate, in any case if I integrate this module, I will look closely at their paper without a priori on the urine. If the electrodes or the electrolyte get awkwardly dirty, they are probably talking about it. if anyone has any results quantifying the fouling and the impact it has, in intensity, gas production, or whatever, that would be interesting.

[chatelot16]

there are jokers who play with confusion: real scientific article on the electrolysis of pure urea, and tinkering around the table with urine without encrypted results

it's a bit like giving scientific results on the use of pure alcohol as fuel, and putting red wine in your car because it contains alcohol ... you can always try

Composition of human urine
Water: 95%
Urea: 2%

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine

this 2% of urea has a historical importance on the discovery of urea, but a negligible energy content

[Edenguard]

Hello to you,

I tested this kind of electrolysis a while ago.
The problem I had was that it formed a thick white foam fairly quickly, and it ended up coming out of the electrolyser.
The bubbles in the foam are very explosive yes, but the foam no, it's the electrolyte ...
Suddenly the level of electrolyte decreases with great step and bars the electrolyzer.
We would have to find something to contain the foam in the electrolyser, maybe with a fairly high tube it would go, or else a very fine grid above to make the foam recondense, I don't know ...
I could not compare with normal electrolysis since it is unusable as it is ...

A+

[porschecollec]

Hello,
I have already read some comments from you on others forums. Including false explanations to dissuade you in your attempts (always this damn pseudo conservation of something) which obviously did not stop you.
I am not comfortable with questions of potential (chemical or electrical) that you seem to master, I will study this when the time comes. Regarding your remark, I think that the foam is the same as what I observe in my charged batteries or in a soda bottle. Gas included, more or less dissolved. Depending on the physical conditions (eg shaking), these inclusions rise. It's purely physical, so a physical response should be fine. The characteristics of the electrolyte are directly responsible for this emulsion or not. in all cases, by breaking these bubbles (shaking the battery, or grid as you suppose) we must be able to limit the phenomenon. If this happens to me, I have the intuition that a fairly fine grid will stop the liquid from this foam and that the gas will pass, which is the objective. on the other hand, a fairly long tube, I don't believe it. the foam will climb (I can be wrong, it all depends on the characteristics of the liquid, its surface tension, the shape and position of the tube / gravity, etc.). In any case, thank you for the information.
I am only to make a large diagram of all the possible modules of the urine / HHO / pantone systems, diagram of principle (ex: I conceptually separate the magnetic bar aspect and the heating aspect) to choose with my team the module (or several in case of dependence) that we will build and the machine that will receive it in tractor, car, brushcutter, etc.
Sincerely,
--- John ---

[chatelot16]

conservation of something ???

every time we do a transformation we have to understand what is the thing that is kept to calculate

in the case of electrolysis, each time it makes an electron it makes a hydrogen atom ... whatever the electrolyzed product the current ratio hydrogen flow is the same

the only thing that changes is the tension

by electrolysing water, with soda or sulfuric acid the tension is what is necessary so that there is conservation of energy

with urea electrolysis it uses urea energy and the tension is very low, so it uses less energy

this is only visible with large surface electrodes ... if the electrodes are too small with an always too high voltage, we do not see the difference between electrolysis of water and electrolysis of urea

urine is not urea! among other things it contains chlorides which will miserably eat up the anode

it will be possible to see at the start of the electrolysis a very low voltage, therefore low electrical energy ... but as soon as the 2% of urea is consumed the electrolysis voltage will be the normal electrolysis voltage of water , with the piggy problem of urine in addition

[porschecollec]

At first, I'm annoyed because I can't find a way to contact the people in charge to report my problem to them. maybe it's due to my browser, i don't know. Second, the problem in question: I ask questions or I give information about the use of urine in a heat engine. But for me this is only one of the countless possibilities for improving engines that have been considered for two centuries. I would like the topic on the pee in the engine to be a leaf from a large tree which would be for example "improvement of thermal engines", in which the systems with reactors would be one branch, the HHO another, the modifications of the existing components (sanding, lightening) another, what do I know. But I can't find a structure of this type, so I walk around at random. the rest of my talk will end up here because I started, when it should perhaps be somewhere else, in short, I'm lost. Is it just my doing, or the part forum the site be redesigned in tree form?
Now the heart of the matter: in wanting to understand the functioning of heat engines, I came across a book from 1900 which gave (among other things) a thermodynamic model of engine. This particularly interested me, because it is always useful to understand what we are developing. Unfortunately, this model contains errors, or at least it forgets processes which are fundamental and which make me doubt the conclusions of the author. so I developed a new model based on what was already done. the current result is simply the energy supplied by the engine, a simple formula. The terms which intervene make it possible to understand the effect of the various parameters included in the model. If people are interested either to understand what this model brings, or to correct any calculation errors, I will write the demonstration on a digital support (word or other genre), otherwise, it will remain a draft in my project documentation . Of course, I will probably have to flesh out this model as I progress. If someone is interested, I will have to explain to me how to attach a file in this forum or equivalent method.
Last point: the paper on the electrolysis of urea that I reported a few days ago no longer responds (black screen, nothing else) but I have a printed version (not yet read in detail) , fortunately. So I can scan and post if anyone is interested.
--- jeans ---