Managing the shortage: Discolored heating oil in an HDi car?

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Remundo
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by Remundo » 22/10/10, 13:01

I'm learning things ...

In this document from the Professional Oil Committee relating to the specification of domestic fuel oil (FOD), we note a skilful dosage of tracer agents ... in the years 2002 ...
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This clever blend is also known under the name of "Yellow 124" ...

So in this Yellow 124 there is a famous product, the SY124
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Source page 5-69

To neutralize all these beautiful people, you have to know organic chemistry and have the necessary products ...

As Christophe says, the "econological" interest is not very obvious : Idea:
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by Christophe » 22/10/10, 13:08

About sulfur, on this link http://books.google.fr/books?id=zKenoCJ ... &q&f=false
a mass concentration ratio of sulfur is indicated from 0.206 to 0.3 or 1.5 ... between the GO and the FOD

Which has nothing to do with factor 100 to 200 from the other source ...

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Another mystery ...

On the other hand, this table also indicates that diesel and fuel oil are not really physically identical for an engine:
- density (the pump and injector will be disturbed)
- viscosity at 20 ° C
- cetane
- PCI ...

Docn the farmers with whom I spoke with so rightly: there is more energy in the FOD than the road GO. The cetane gain should not be noticeable on industrial engines.

The carbon and hydrogen contents are also much more different than I thought ...


I think on the other hand that this table dates a little because the cloud point at -8 ° C for road GO seems very hot to me ... this explains maybe the small difference on the sulfur?

Macro will know more?

In any case, this shows and confirms one thing: it is strongly advised not to use FOD in modern diesel.

Remundo wrote:To neutralize all these beautiful people, you have to know organic chemistry and have the necessary products ...


Should this still be possible ... reduce their effect surely but neutralize completely, it is not at all certain that this is possible. The state can be very inventive to avoid being eaten up ...

Go try to make coffee and milk again with a café au lait. : Mrgreen:
Chemistry has its limits ...
Last edited by Christophe the 22 / 10 / 10, 13: 16, 2 edited once.
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by chatelot16 » 22/10/10, 13:12

that's the problem ! the least chemical costs more than the benefit of the operation

the same for filtering: do not forget the fuel oil which will be lost in the wrong filter ... earth or sand ... the fuel oil which will be lost good for nothing after failed tests!

the advantage of distillation is that it does not consume any chemical and that it really purifies: I still do it from time to time to recycle fuel oil used to clean mechanics! my recycled fuel is cleaner than red fuel! it cleans better and has less smell!

the only consumption is wood to heat: and it's spectacular: the heat of vaporization of hydrocarbons is much lower than that of water: you have to wait for the temperature to rise higher than to distill alcohol in the water, but once it starts it's a big flow with a small fire

I also use the same system to recycle white spirit
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by Christophe » 22/10/10, 13:17

chatelot16 wrote:the advantage of distillation is that it does not consume any chemical and that it really purifies: I still do it from time to time to recycle fuel oil used to clean mechanics! my recycled fuel is cleaner than red fuel! it cleans better and has less smell!


You make us an illustrated subject on this method?
Steupléééééééééééé : Cheesy:
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by Christophe » 22/10/10, 13:20

Christophe wrote:I think on the other hand that this table dates a little because the cloud point at -8 ° C for road GO seems very hot to me ... this explains maybe the small difference on the sulfur?


Verification: the book is an edition of 1994, therefore rather modern (I thought of an edition of the years 50-60) but at the time we did not know the Hdi (research had to be just in progress) ....

So there has been a halving of sulfur in 2002 since ... but for the rest it must still be valid today ...

Correct me if I get wrong ...
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by chatelot16 » 22/10/10, 13:37

be careful the distillation does not separate the sulfur which is in the form of a compound as volatile as the other hydrocarbons

to get rid of fuel oil you have to do real chemistry ... i believe with hydrogen ... but without precise explanation

my information on petroleum refining dates back to 1920, when there were details in the books
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by Christophe » 22/10/10, 13:40

chatelot16 wrote:at a time when there were details in the books


Well the one found by remundo is not bad in details all the same ... and it dates from 1994

Still Google is pretty bloated with any scanner like that. I would not like to be in the place of specialized publishers.
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by chatelot16 » 22/10/10, 14:12

google book does not make a mistake with the editor: on the contrary that makes publicity: the books are not scanned entirely: it is always the most interesting part which are not available: after having discovered the book with google, ca make you want to buy it!

as there are no more interesting books in bookstores, how to buy if you can not browse to choose

in my old books I saw descriptions with brick fireplaces, riveted iron boilers, things that can inspire a realization in smaller ...

my system which distils 20 liters in a batch is too small to be profitable, and already too large and dangerous to advise the realization: the best would be to make smaller but automatic, with continuous operation: the ca could be useful to recycle solvent!

this kind of small machine could be sold legally, while not saying that it also works for fuel oil

there are already machines to recycle solvents for chemistry labs, but at astronomical prices! I am talking about recycling solvent for mechanical cleaning ... the purity sought is not the same: we forget glassware and we are content with scrap
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by Obamot » 22/10/10, 14:30

... a little funny this story of a tracer (should be expected a little). But I think the recipe is not the same from one country to another ...

What is worrying with these tax drifts, is that if you have lent your vehicle, you are not supposed to know what type of "fuel" has put the one who drove it before you! Especially if it's a company vehicle that runs quite well ....

Qa few cases where we could find traces of "red" without knowing it of your own accord
- When doing mechanics, it is not forbidden to use domestic fuel oil to clean its parts, I presume ...! (Understand who can ... but there are chances that the tracker will find himself in the circuit ...) :D
- case of a service station owner who would cut off his diesel with "red".
- case of the delivery person himself who would fill the tanks with "cut" fuel ...
- stupid case of the pump attendant who does the service by putting "red" in order to make more profit!
- case of the dishonest employee who drives "red" to make a small profit on fuel ...
- case of application of petroleum on the parts of the bodywork particularly exposed to bad weather, to protect them from corrosion.

If you are an indelicate employee, know that the tax department can easily detect it for you by examining your account and finding unusual differences between the mileage traveled and the diesel bills. If there is suspicion they will check the authenticity of the invoices at the pump! The zealous official will also look at the breakdown of costs in the various operating accounts (in the case of payment by his company? (If we lend it, of course) Hmm, so it's up to them to prove what we're driving and why we found a tracker where we shouldn't have ... and who put it, right !?

I never had this problem, since I use my private vehicle for the job, but it is just to say that the sources of finding tracers can be multiple ... And unexpected!

So except for the "flag" of whoever fills the tank ... I'm not sure how they could prosecute a presumed innocent vehicle owner.

It would be better to take an interest in what fuel is swallowing the drivers! : Mrgreen: If red is prohibited, white may be authorized ... : Mrgreen:

What you have to be especially careful about - if you lend your vehicle ... and when someone (very careless) has inadvertently filled the tank with "red" - is how to get rid of this dirty smell that could make us look like an ideal culprit (!)
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by Christophe » 22/10/10, 14:45

Obamot wrote:... a little funny this story of a tracer (should be expected a little). But I think the recipe is not the same from one country to another ...


So why change a recipe that "wins"?

It would surprise me that it varies so much because these are the same tankers and petroleum methods that are everywhere in the world, so they have very international methods ...

Besides, is there any fuel oil of a color other than red? Wasn't there blue fuel oil for the navy at one time?
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