ITER when?
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Re: ITER when?
Yeah finally ... It's TF1 anyway ...
I have a serious doubt about the contributions of the scale effect ...
If we can not generate a single watt with a tokamak torus of about 10 m in diameter ... Why would a bigger one be so much more efficient?
I have always heard, and this report repeats it well, that ITER was only a demonstrator ...
Which means that a possible industrial product will be what in terms of scale? Still 10 times bigger?
I have a serious doubt about the contributions of the scale effect ...
If we can not generate a single watt with a tokamak torus of about 10 m in diameter ... Why would a bigger one be so much more efficient?
I have always heard, and this report repeats it well, that ITER was only a demonstrator ...
Which means that a possible industrial product will be what in terms of scale? Still 10 times bigger?
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Re: ITER when?
Not to mention that ITER consumes not only deuterium but tritium produced by irradiation of lithium on its outer layer.
There is strong cry about the CO2 balance sheet and the pollution of Li-Ion batteries, but who the impact of these hundreds of tons of rare earths, beryllium coating (extremely toxic), 400 000 tons of concrete just for the proto ......
There is strong cry about the CO2 balance sheet and the pollution of Li-Ion batteries, but who the impact of these hundreds of tons of rare earths, beryllium coating (extremely toxic), 400 000 tons of concrete just for the proto ......
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- sen-no-sen
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Re: ITER when?
Christophe wrote:I have always heard, and this report repeats it well, that ITER was only a demonstrator ...
Which means that a possible industrial product will be what in terms of scale? Still 10 times bigger?
The rest of ITER will be DEMO ... normally.
In the world of fusion, research programs do not follow each other, they overlap. We were already thinking about what could be ITER (under the name INTOR) when the European JET was under construction in the early 1980 years; Today we are working on the design of DEMO, while ITER is just starting to come out of the ground.
With DEMO, research on fusion energy will come closer to a prototype reactor. After ITER, an experimental machine that has demonstrated the feasibility of fusion energy, DEMO will pave the way for its industrial and commercial exploitation.
https://www.iter.org/fr/mag/3/22
Finally, I think rather that there will not be much after ITER.It is safe to bet that the technology of ITER will be overtaken by a more innovative project like the Sandia ZR machine or the Stellerator of the institute Max Planck or the compact fusion project of Lokheed Martin.
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Re: ITER when?
[From the sky] On the giant construction site of Iter, in Cadarache
SYLVAIN ARNULF PROVENCE-ALPES-CÔTE D'AZUR, New Factory the 04 / 08 / 2019
VIDEO On the occasion of the event exhibition "Industry seen from the sky", L'Usine Nouvelle invites you to take a step back and take a new look at the industry. Today the giant site of Iter in Cadarache.
An update on the progress of the shipyard with a drone flyover, made in June 2019: Video
see the video (and put it in full screen) https://www.usinenouvelle.com/article/v ... he.N872230
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- Grelinette
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Re: ITER when?
Finally, from the point of view of collapsology, these projects as titanic as they are unspoken will perhaps make everyone agree.
When we read articles of the link given by moinsdewatt, we learn among other things that the Chernobyl concrete sarcophagus is in poor condition and threatens to collapse ... not to mention the current nuclear powers that do not stop to impress with missiles sent in all directions!
All this could well provoke a more brutal collapsology than that which we are being gently announced for a few decades
When we read articles of the link given by moinsdewatt, we learn among other things that the Chernobyl concrete sarcophagus is in poor condition and threatens to collapse ... not to mention the current nuclear powers that do not stop to impress with missiles sent in all directions!
All this could well provoke a more brutal collapsology than that which we are being gently announced for a few decades
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Re: ITER when?
ENERC wrote:Not to mention that ITER consumes not only deuterium but tritium produced by irradiation of lithium on its outer layer.
There is strong cry about the CO2 balance sheet and the pollution of Li-Ion batteries, but who the impact of these hundreds of tons of rare earths, beryllium coating (extremely toxic), 400 000 tons of concrete just for the proto ......
ITER, technology imagined in the years 50-60, we already know that it does not work *, so we know in advance that it will not work. Remains the financial abyss, 4 times the initial budget (for the moment due to the delay) that taxpayers will fill once more at the expense of hospitals, maternities, nurseries, schools, postal agencies and salaries of people who serve really something, and the risk (not insignificant, if not very likely) that it peeps us in the mouth ...
* The European Jet tokamak produced 16 megawatts for one second for an injected power of 25 ... <<
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"By definition the cause is the product of the effect". (Tryphion)
"360 / 000 / 0,5 is 100 million and not 72 million" (AVC)
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Re: ITER when?
Compared to all current projects, many laugh: delays, delusional costs ... etc
As a comparison of the figures (for example) on nuclear power development and research costs from its start to just BEFORE the first production are they available somewhere?
I say anything but in the past did not a lot of serious people laugh at me or find the idea of producing electricity with nuclear or water or coal crazy or delusional or the sun?
It would be interesting to find the figures of these global costs of the 0 point of the research up to the 1ère completed production (even the improvements and evolutions in the time) for a number of modes of supplies of energy which feed us daily today 'hui ...
As a comparison of the figures (for example) on nuclear power development and research costs from its start to just BEFORE the first production are they available somewhere?
I say anything but in the past did not a lot of serious people laugh at me or find the idea of producing electricity with nuclear or water or coal crazy or delusional or the sun?
It would be interesting to find the figures of these global costs of the 0 point of the research up to the 1ère completed production (even the improvements and evolutions in the time) for a number of modes of supplies of energy which feed us daily today 'hui ...
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Re: ITER when?
The cost itself is not a problem for me. If it leads to a clean and abundant source of energy, the billions spent on research are just an anecdote and I'm glad my taxes are involved.
The problem is that visibly, despite what some say, ITER will do nothing more than what already exists, it's just bigger and more expensive: it's a stalemate.
And if ITER is nothing more than a means to siphon subsidies and public money (see solar road for example) then it will only serve to discredit research for decades.
The problem is that visibly, despite what some say, ITER will do nothing more than what already exists, it's just bigger and more expensive: it's a stalemate.
And if ITER is nothing more than a means to siphon subsidies and public money (see solar road for example) then it will only serve to discredit research for decades.
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- Adrien (ex-nico239)
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Re: ITER when?
Forhorse wrote:The cost itself is not a problem for me. If it leads to a clean and abundant source of energy, the billions spent on research are just an anecdote and I'm glad my taxes are involved.
The problem is that visibly, despite what some say, ITER will do nothing more than what already exists, it's just bigger and more expensive: it's a stalemate.
And if ITER is nothing more than a means to siphon subsidies and public money (see solar road for example) then it will only serve to discredit research for decades.
We can actually doubt or make fun of a lot of advances or innovations in all areas but it's a bit like what I said for the garden you have to wait until the end of the game and make the first ... accounts .
And the only interest is to compare what is comparable to know (if we can get them) the figures of the overall development costs of the old innovations with those under development.
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