Hydrogen, storage and production: evolution and H2 technologies

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BobFuck
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by BobFuck » 27/11/12, 08:49

> We wait for Bob to say: how much does it cost to do it,

Oddly the info is not on their site. It would be interesting to know if their process is profitable ...

> we have already talked about it on page 2

Yes, but since then they have built the factory!

> and how does he store his methanol safely

Like petrol, it is neither more nor less dangerous. A little less toxic besides, although the one who drinks a little too much becomes a cursed poet or starts to paint bizarre sunflowers : Mrgreen:

> and what if there is no hot water

The interest for Icelanders is that it does not work with the sun (they have more hot sparkling water than the sun). The same with the sun would also be very interesting. There is a lot of research on artificial photosythesis, it's very interesting I think.
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 27/11/12, 08:56

BobFuck wrote:
and how does he [Bob] to store his methanol safely


Like petrol, it is neither more nor less dangerous. A little less toxic, though the one who drinks too much becomes a cursed poet or begins to paint bizarre sunflowers : Mrgreen:

Funny idea! : Mrgreen: : Cheesy: you tried eh diwouar ... chenapan ... ^^

PS: Be careful, however, not to have asparthame: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspartame_controversy
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by BobFuck » 27/11/12, 09:20

There were some in the absinthe of yesteryear (hence the effects!)

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absinthe_(spiritueux) # L.27interdiction
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by Obamot » 27/12/12, 02:29

Things are moving on the side of EPFL:

EPFL wrote:Formic acid as a hydrogen source - recent developments and future trends
Grasemann, Martin; Laurenczy, Gabor

* Published in: Energy & Environmental Science (ISSN: 1754-5706), vol. 5, num. 8, p. 8171
* Publication date: 2012

Formic acid has recently been suggested as a promising hydrogen storage material. The basic concept is briefly discussed and the recent advances in the development of formic acid dehydrogenation catalysts are shown. Both the state of research for heterogeneous and for homogeneous catalyst systems are reviewed in detail and an outlook on necessary development steps is presented. Formic acid is considered one of the most promising materials for hydrogen storage today. There are a number of highly active and robust homogeneous catalysts that selectively decompose formic acid to H2 and CO2 near to room temperature. Although the activity and selectivity of heterogeneous catalysts have not yet reached the level of homogeneous systems, this gap is closing.

Keywords: hydrogen storage; formic acid; hydrogen delivery
References

*EPFL-ARTICLE-180528
* doi: 10.1039 / c2ee21928j
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nlc
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by nlc » 09/01/13, 20:37

I had a telephone conversation yesterday with a researcher friend (in the solar concentration), and he was telling me that he was coming back from Switzerland where he met people who generate H2 from formic acid, and that the storage equivalent of 1 liter of formic acid is a cylinder of the same volume under 700 bars of pressure !!!

Clearly formic acid is an extra energy carrier! And he told me that these people dissociate formic acid into CO2 + H2 with a catalyst (which is never to be renewed in addition) at room temperature.
I deduce that these are the researchers in question here, I will ask him for confirmation !!

My researcher friend is obviously interested in this process because it would become the most suitable storage vector for storing solar energy, with the reverse transformation, H2 + CO2 to formic acid.
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Gaston
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by Gaston » 10/01/13, 10:30

nlc wrote:the storage equivalent of 1 liter of formic acid, it's a canister of the same volume under 700 bars of pressure !!!
1 liter of H2 at 700 bars, contains 62 grams of H2.
Let be an energy of 242,7 * 62/2 = 7523 J = 2kWh.

We find the calculated figures page 4 of this topic...

The storage equivalent of 1 liter of petrol is a cylinder of the same volume under 3300 bars of pressure ... and a liter of petrol weighs less than a liter of formic acid ...

nlc wrote:Clearly formic acid is an extra energy carrier!
It is a good means of storing hydrogen, on the other hand as an energy carrier, it remains about 4 to 5 times less good than petrol ...
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by Obamot » 10/01/13, 22:27

By reducing consumption by 4 to 5 times we would be at the same level as petrol!

am i good? : Cheesy:

However, it should be possible to build 4x lighter vehicles than the 1 ton vehicles which were the norm until recently ...

How this kind of electric vehicle (this one seems 250 kg it seems):
http://www.eon-motors.com/

http://www.technologicvehicles.com/fr/d ... -technique
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by moulino51 » 10/01/13, 22:56

Yes, a car without a license has € 9000 : Cry:

For 2000 € more we could have a Czéro also with batteries in full ownership : Cheesy:


GS
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by BobFuck » 10/01/13, 22:57

Gaston wrote:It is a good means of storing hydrogen, on the other hand as an energy carrier, it remains about 4 to 5 times less good than petrol ...


Well, and then to make it, you need carbon ... coal?
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by Fakir » 10/01/13, 23:06

Formic acid is used here as an H² vector.
H² must be used in a heat pump to produce electricity and heat pumps have an efficiency 4 to 6 times more efficient than an internal combustion engine.
QED.

In addition, an electric motor is much lighter than a gasoline engine (I'm not even talking about diesel)

To push efficiency, I will add a rechargeable battery on 220 V for the first 50 kms.

Yes, it is clearly a solution of the present ...
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