Energy - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)

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GuyGadebois
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by GuyGadebois » 05/06/20, 13:07

Ahmed wrote:... yet another promoter of economic transition under the guise of an increasingly discolored "ecology" ...

I'll repeat myself, but at worst, a "clean" technological society is better than the one we live in that is "dirty" from start to finish. The revolution of things can come before the revolution of minds which is much more complex to achieve without totalitarianism.
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Ahmed » 05/06/20, 13:34

"Cleanliness" can be expressed in different ways and I am not satisfied with a definition that is too unequivocal. Let us take civil nuclear power, let us suppose that it is under control and devoid of subsequent surprises: the fact remains that it supposes, as a complex technology, the subjection to a centralized, civilized, controlled, "appraised", specialized, profoundly contaminated, if not by radiation, at least by technologism (because there is necessarily a psychic counterpart to material and organizational aspects).
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by ABC2019 » 05/06/20, 13:41

Ahmed wrote:... yet another promoter of economic transition under the guise of an increasingly discolored "ecology" ...

As his first statement has just been contradicted, he must make another one! : Lol:
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by GuyGadebois » 05/06/20, 14:26

Ahmed wrote:"Cleanliness" can be expressed in different ways and I am not satisfied with a definition that is too unequivocal. Let us take civil nuclear power, let us suppose that it is under control and devoid of subsequent surprises: the fact remains that it supposes, as a complex technology, the subjection to a centralized, civilized, controlled, "appraised", specialized, profoundly contaminated, if not by radiation, at least by technologism (because there is necessarily a psychic counterpart to material and organizational aspects).

For me, nuclear power is dirty.
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Christophe » 18/01/22, 17:03

I'm posting this seminar for the mayors of Europe on energy sobriety here: a lot of talk and conceptual ideas and too few concrete applications... but it's a silly thought for some interesting figures...



source: https://www.arec-idf.fr/sobriete-energe ... s-durables

Energy sobriety, shaping sustainable behaviors

Replay of the December 14, 2021 conference

Although still largely unknown at European level, the concept of energy sobriety can help local authorities to achieve their climate and energy objectives. Energy sobriety consists of giving priority to essential needs in the individual and collective use of energy. In this sense, energy efficiency goes beyond energy efficiency.

The Covenant of Mayors - Europe, FEDARENE and AREC IDF have teamed up for an exclusive webinar on the subject. Find out how energy efficiency can be implemented in several sectors of our society, from mobility to digital infrastructure and social innovation.
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Ahmed » 18/01/22, 18:31

When a system based on growth begins to promote sobriety, there is legitimate reason to wonder.
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by GuyGadeboisTheBack » 18/01/22, 18:34

Ahmed wrote:When a system based on growth begins to promote sobriety, there is legitimate reason to wonder.

The big oil companies do promote "clean" energies... and some "green" energy companies screw up everything *... : Mrgreen:

* natural-human-disasters / dark-water-or-how-the-industrialists-poison-us t16329-80.html # p487299
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Remundo » 18/01/22, 18:42

ah the growth/decline debate...

One thing is certain: growth based on fossil fuels is not sustainable.

Should we want "always more": I don't think that's reasonable.

But should we regress to a middle-aged standard of living? That doesn't seem reasonable to me either.

We will have to find a middle way that roughly maintains our living standards while making an energy transition to renewables.
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Ahmed » 18/01/22, 18:59

The question is not whether we always want more: this augmentative aspect is part of the software and in no way depends on us (even if, of course, it tends (sic!) to influence a lot of it).
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Re: Energie - "Degrowth is impossible" (Bertrand Piccard)




by Remundo » 18/01/22, 19:03

"part of the software"

which ? from whom?
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