Attack of drones and safety of nuclear power plants.

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Attack of drones and safety of nuclear power plants.




by sen-no-sen » 03/07/18, 21:31

Greenpeace drone at the Bugey power station: "Imagine if it had been done by a malicious group"

After the NGO activists launched a drone and a radio-controlled aircraft to the Bugey plant, Greenpeace called on EDF to take responsibility.


"It was very simple. It was enough to launch these drones from the other side of the Rhône, and to pilot them with a remote control. It lasted a few seconds," said Tuesday July 3 on franceinfo Cyrille Cormier, responsible for the energy campaign at Greenpeace. Earlier in the day, NGO activists threw a drone and a radio-controlled aircraft towards the Bugey power plant, in the Ain, to "deliberately crash them." Greenpeace explained in a statement wanting to demonstrate "the extreme vulnerability of spent fuel storage pools and the critical lack of security of EDF nuclear power plants."
Nuclear power plants, a target since September 11

"They were inert devices, polystyrene drones. Greenpeace acts in non-violence. But imagine if it had been done by a malicious group, with a malicious device, the damage that it could have caused", thus launched Cyrille Cormier. One of the drones depicted a Styrofoam Superman, to signify it was "nonviolent action" and "to provide contrast." "If he had been the real Superman, super strong, he would have pierced this pool, much like an airplane could have done, or criminal flying objects," he continued.


https://www.francetvinfo.fr/societe/nucleaire/drone-de-greenpeace-a-la-centrale-du-bugey-imaginez-si-cela-avait-ete-fait-par-un-groupe-malveillant_2832821.html

Of course it does not prove much in terms of heavy risk for the plant, but it could give bad ideas ...
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Janic » 03/07/18, 21:52

According to EDF power plants are made to withstand the fall of an aircraft, so a drone !!!! : Cheesy:
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Ahmed » 03/07/18, 22:30

Power plants, of course, but not spent fuel storage pools ...
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Christophe » 04/07/18, 01:28

Janic wrote:According to EDF power plants are made to withstand the fall of an aircraft, so a drone !!!! : Cheesy:


a) Yes that is what we hear according to EDF but according to some energy calculations? A Cesna is not a Boeing ...
b) An 747 filled with kero and 1000 km / h I have some doubts about the resistance of the BR and damage around ...
c) The rest of the plant is not as "air proof" as the BR, far from it: the control room is not "bunkerized" ... (it seems to me)
d) So everything depends on the load of the drone ... and its target ...

For less than 5000 € it is currently possible to manufacture "easily" (provided you have some neurons left in this brainless mode) a drone that can carry 50 kg with an autonomy of 10 minutes ... I know what I'm talking about: I'm making a paramotor electric since 18 months so the stuff I know what it costs ...

And 50 kg of C4 it can already hurt ...

For less than 10 000 €, it is easy to exceed 100 kg of payload ... see: Transportation-electric / drone-the-bath-flying-hexacoptere-a-1-passenger-and-less-than-10-000-diy-t15523.html

100 kg of C4 it fucks in the air (and for a moment) any nuclear power station (I do not speak necessarily of BR) if we know exactly where to make the detonation (I reassure you: I do not know)

Autonomy, a limiting factor for quad or hexa drones, has little importance in "kamikaze" mode ...

Fortunately there are electronic jammers drones and is frankly amazing (and irresponsible for the reasons I just wrote), EDF is not yet equipped ... 17 11 years after the September !!

After that there is much easier to fuck shit in a country than to attack a nuclear power station, but I will refrain from giving "good bad" ideas to the enemies of democracy ...
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by sen-no-sen » 04/07/18, 10:39

Christophe wrote:
Janic wrote:According to EDF power plants are made to withstand the fall of an aircraft, so a drone !!!! : Cheesy:


a) Yes that is what we hear according to EDF but according to some energy calculations? A Cesna is not a Boeing ...
b) An 747 filled with kero and 1000 km / h I have some doubts about the resistance of the BR and damage around ...
c) The rest of the plant is not as "air proof" as the BR, far from it: the control room is not "bunkerized" ... (it seems to me)
d) So everything depends on the load of the drone ... and its target ...


Indeed, even the EPR BR is not designed to withstand the impact of a jumbo jet.
However, the target would not necessarily be the BR itself, but rather surrounding areas such as the power generation area.
It is possible to make hollow charges low cost whose penetration power can exceed several tens of centimeters ... but we will not extend on the subject.

Fortunately there are electronic jammers drones and is frankly amazing (and irresponsible for the reasons I just wrote), EDF is not yet equipped ... 17 11 years after the September !!


It is possible to make self-piloted drones (with a flight program), by definition the jamming would not really affect.

After that there is much easier to fuck shit in a country than to attack a nuclear power station, but I will refrain from giving "good bad" ideas to the enemies of democracy ...


Effectively!
I still feel that Greenpeace is fighting against nuclear while other sites have security gaps much more obvious (refinery etc ...).
The introduction of activists to the CNE Cruas Meysse in 2017 had already made much of them.
The 22 activists were judged:
19 activists and activists were sentenced to a four-month suspended prison sentence and at a fine of 500 euros. Three activists - who were already suspended - are sentenced to four months in prison suspended and tested for 18 months, as well as A fine of 500 euros also. Greenpeace France is fined 25 000 euros. Yannick Rousselet, in charge of the organization's nuclear campaign, who was being prosecuted for complicity, was released. The moral damage is fixed at 50 000 euros in favor of EDF. The material damage will be evaluated by an expert and will be decided during a hearing in December 2018.

https://www.lci.fr/societe/intrusion-dans-la-centrale-de-cruas-meysse-22-militants-de-greenpeace-evitent-la-prison-ferme-2091783.html

Note that 60% of donors Greenpeace are Germans ... off the energy transition model German is based on the massive use of renewables (mainly wind) could therefore see in all this activism a form of lobbying barely masked.
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Ahmed » 04/07/18, 11:38

There are many sensitive sites (not nuclear) that are easy targets, however the facts show that it is the spectacular side that is sought by the various * perpetrators of attacks and not the destructive performance (in terms of human lives ).

* I say "various" because the motivations can be varied, both in reality and those displayed.
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by sen-no-sen » 04/07/18, 16:32

Ahmed wrote:There are many sensitive sites (not nuclear) that are easy targets, however the facts show that it is the spectacular side that is sought by the various * perpetrators of attacks and not the destructive performance (in terms of human lives ).

* I say "various" because the motivations can be varied, both in reality and those displayed.


Yes, and fortunately for us terrorists are mostly amateurs.
Progress is leading us irremediably towards Andre Lebau call "The cog of technology".
The very high level of connection of our company, are weak power of resilience and the hyper-specialization of production modes make the industrial system particularly fragile.
For relatively low costs it will soon be possible for groups* to put an end to what is called civilization.


* Fundamentalist of all kinds millenarian tendency eg.
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Janic » 04/07/18, 17:14

* Fundamentalist of all kinds millenarian tendency eg.
:?: Is there no confusion of genres? :D
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by Ahmed » 04/07/18, 18:16

I am not sure that the type of usual targets currently are simply attributable to the amateurism of their authors. I think it's more to account for a memetic of violence that aims for fast and spectacular results (does these criteria evoke nothing ....? : Wink: ).
These useful idiots destabilize our "democracies" less than they reinforce it via the structures of control (reinforcement of the coercive apparatus on the one hand and search of the public for the protection of the public powers on the other ...).

However, an abandonment of the symbolic strategy can not be ruled out, but seems unlikely in the short term (in any case, not in a geopolitical perspective) ...
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Re: UAV attack and safety of nuclear power plants.




by sen-no-sen » 04/07/18, 18:31

Ahmed wrote:These useful idiots destabilize our "democracies" less than they reinforce it via the structures of control (reinforcement of the coercive apparatus on the one hand and search of the public for the protection of the public powers on the other ...).


Terrorism especially since the 11 / 9 / 2001 favors the famous "shock strategy".
It is also not difficult to see that during the last waves of attacks that had allowed the executive to earn polling points ... the beautiful speeches gatherers are not expensive!
In addition, the feeling of insecurity makes it possible to reduce individual liberties and to establish a society of control, one could see a process of additional technological domination.Therefore terrorism could be understood as an evolutionary factor, in line with what was the two world wars.
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