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Remundo
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by Remundo » 11/08/15, 15:37

concrete leash Chatelot, : Cheesy:

people have to have fun on Sunday,

in the evening they bring the horse back with their 4x4 of 100 Horses : Cheesy:

they make me laugh a little, those nostalgic people of the 1800s ... if we have developed steam engines so much, then explosion and electricity, it is because animal traction is very weak in comparison, and their pain was so much relieved!

Otherwise, the Horse-Steamer is 736W, this is the typical power that a healthy horse can give off.
https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheval-vapeur

With a good pulley and unhindered (that is to say roughly the opposite of treadmill ...), a horse lifts every second a mass of 75 kg from a distance of 1m by walking under mechanical stress.

We have long exploited this for plowing, in particular with horses more powerful than that yet, by genetic selection.

And if not, I recently saw stripping videos on the Amish in the United States
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdQAtm8FnSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_Qash0LqFs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2mPnAjOQ4A

you will see that it is not only horses that work ...
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by Did67 » 11/08/15, 16:46

chatelot16 wrote:you still don't answer the main question, how powerful can a horse be



The order of magnitude (because the size, power, endurance, training of horses vary ...) is a "horsepower", or 700 W.

Magnitude.

The horse being alive, it depends. Unlike a machine. It can develop a stronger power, less long, or a weaker power, longer ...

For a ladle cogitation, this figure could give you an idea ...
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by Did67 » 11/08/15, 16:53

Grelinette wrote:
However, this is not what the videos at the start show: a simple treadmill with 2 horses operates a wood saw and a log splitter at the same time.


You will notice that they saw very thin logs !!! Obviously, logs with a diameter of 10 cm ... At the limit of "branches", so ...

I also have a doubt about the hardness of the wood: it was neither charm nor beech ... A soft hardwood? Willow? Poplar?

It will have been more demonstrative to attack charms or beech trees with a diameter of 40 ... [what any supermarket chainsaw with 250 bales cuts x times without firing ...) ...
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by Grelinette » 11/08/15, 19:53

The debate gets lost !!!

We all agree that a horse will always be less powerful and less efficient than a heat engine. The question is not there.

However, I would remind you that in December a conference should help to free oneself from thermal energy from petroleum, and keeping this energy as a reference will be more and more out of place.
Electricity, even if it is promising, is starting to worry because we still do not know how to store it efficiently, and some specialists are already alerting to the rapid scarcity of materials needed for electricity (rare earths).

Then the idea is to take a tool that has existed for over 100 years, and that some have brought up to date, and study it to see if we can improve it ... even if we suspect that we can never make it as efficient as a heat engine.
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by Ahmed » 11/08/15, 20:35

It is not necessary to be a great prophet to announce that the conference of December will not emancipate anything at all, that it is only a farce to better deceive public opinion, to make it understand that its worries are taken into account.

Completely agree, however on the dead ends of RE in the area of ​​extractivism, in which they are hardly distinguished from conventional ...
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by 1360 » 11/08/15, 21:19

Remundo wrote:in the evening they bring the horse back with their 4x4 of 100 Horses


Heuuu, are there still 4x4s so weak?

;)
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by Remundo » 11/08/15, 23:10

in order of magnitude ... : Lol:
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by Did67 » 12/08/15, 10:44

Grelinette wrote:
However, I would remind you that in December a conference should help to free oneself from thermal energy from petroleum, and keeping this energy as a reference will be more and more out of place.
Electricity, even if it is promising, is starting to worry because we still do not know how to store it efficiently, and some specialists are already alerting to the rapid scarcity of materials needed for electricity (rare earths).

Then the idea is to take a tool that has existed for over 100 years, and that some have brought up to date, and study it to see if we can improve it ... even if we suspect that we can never make it as efficient as a heat engine.


Exactly. If you situate the debate thus, a rarer energy, etc ... the question of the efficiency of the system, evoked above, and which you avoid (undoubtedly by "love of horses", which is respectable - I know passions more stupid!) becomes capital:

- if there are many men (which is the case)

- if almost all the land is cleared (which is the case)

- how can I, from one hectare, recover the most energy for my human needs (take the example of the video that you put online: sawing and splitting wood)?

a) by maintaining a horse, who will sometimes trample?

b) by installing a digester, which will methanize the plants produced on this ha, produce gas, storable, from which we will be able to produce electricity or movement (the saw and the splitter, instead of turning on horse or the petrol engine, could be powered by a group powered by gas!) or heat or a combination of these energies ...

Without having done any calculations, I think there is no picture, simply because the bacteria in the digester are infinitely more efficient than the big and heavy horse, which mainly talks about itself - and incidentally , delivers some work ...

So I think that the treadmill, from the perspective of a rare energy is a dead end.

Except for the horse lover, who anyway, "at a loss", not to mention, will maintain his horse (s) anyway. As already written, I respect.

And except certain spaces, limited but existing, difficult to exploit other than not "grazers / collectors": goats, horses, donkeys, etc ...

So I don't condemn the device.

I just think that it is necessary to realistically circumscribe the real potential ...

And I find it a shame to ignore the "yield" debate! Including for renewable energies - especially perhaps for these energies, rare! - the question of yield will become crucial in a finite world!
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by Ahmed » 12/08/15, 10:54

In a finite world, it is not performance that counts but utility ...
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by Macro » 12/08/15, 11:02

No need ... And I much prefer to see a horse with a deplorable performance pulling a delivery cart than a jet ski making circles in the water for pleasure ...
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