Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...

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izentrop
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Re: Fessenheim, the nuclear power plant is 30 years old!




by izentrop » 04/02/18, 23:49

dede2002 wrote:Just a thought: the energy that makes the dam work comes mainly from the melting of the glaciers, it works better and better!
When the glaciers have finished melting, we can dismantle ...
Why ? will the precipitation stop?
On the contrary, it seems that where it rains, it will rain more.

The meltwater from the glacier is added to the rainwater and when everything is melted, the flow will decrease, but will not stop.
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by sicetaitsimple » 05/02/18, 15:33

Christophe wrote:
I suggest that we apply the method I already gave above to the EPR project.

Steps to do:
a) Find the cost of the EPR site
b) Find the carbon intensity of France (€ of GDP / kg of CO2) or of Europe rather (because many providers are foreign ... the tanks are even Japanese ...)
c) Divide a) by b) will give an estimate of the CO2 emitted by the EPR just for the construction of the EPR

This method, simple and fast, can give interesting orders of magnitude of the carbon of everything as long as we have its cost, like this one on gray energy


To return to the subject, where are you in this calculation?
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by Ahmed » 05/02/18, 21:52

The interest of the remark of Dede The presence of glaciers or high-altitude snow regulates the flow of streams and maintains a high flow rate in the summer, when precipitation is slowing down. This is particularly important for the Himalayan rivers: alternating floods and water shortages would seriously impact the lives of millions of people.
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izentrop
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by izentrop » 05/02/18, 22:56

Ahmed wrote:The interest of the remark of Dede is due to the fact that the presence of glaciers or high altitude snow regulates the flow of rivers and helps maintain a significant flow in summer ....
I think it was a joke and I jumped with both feet :x ... we don't dismantle a hydroelectric dam : Mrgreen: although the Swiss :?: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by Christophe » 06/02/18, 10:36

sicetaitsimple wrote:To return to the subject, where are you in this calculation?


I let you do the digital application since I found the formula : Cheesy:
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by sicetaitsimple » 06/02/18, 13:52

Christophe wrote:I let you do the digital application since I found the formula : Cheesy:


Out of curiosity, I actually tried a digital application to see.

The hypotheses:

- carbon intensity France: 118tCO2 / M $ (source PWC LCEI 2016, source having "a reputation for global rigor other than ademe"
according to you a little higher)
- € / $ parity = 1,25
- EPR cost € 12bn
- EPR production: 1650MW, utilization coefficient 80%, over 60 years.

I arrive, unless I am mistaken, at 2,5g / kWh, a little more than half an ass in the SE unit (econologist system).

We can then discuss endlessly the method and the hypotheses, again I just wanted to see the order of magnitude we arrived at.
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by dede2002 » 09/02/18, 08:28

izentrop wrote:
Ahmed wrote:The interest of the remark of Dede is due to the fact that the presence of glaciers or high altitude snow regulates the flow of rivers and helps maintain a significant flow in summer ....
I think it was a joke and I jumped with both feet :x ... we don't dismantle a hydroelectric dam : Mrgreen: although the Swiss :?: : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:


Hello : Wink:

Not really a joke, I compare to nuclear power plants whose dismantling is planned in advance (the date, not the cost).

Glaciers have been watching their melting for over 50 years (When I was a kid, around 1970, my father took us to see a glacier he knew when he was little, and he was surprised because he had 1 or 2 km.), while an increase in precipitation is only an assumption.

Regarding the dismantling of dams, just type these two words in a search engine to see that it is perhaps more common than that of nuclear power plants ...

Examples: https://www.partagedeseaux.info/Pourquo ... Etats-Unis

A+
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by Christophe » 09/02/18, 11:15

sicetaitsimple wrote:The hypotheses:

- carbon intensity France: 118tCO2 / M $ (source PWC LCEI 2016, source having "a reputation for global rigor other than ademe"
according to you a little higher)
- € / $ parity = 1,25
- EPR cost € 12bn
- EPR production: 1650MW, utilization coefficient 80%, over 60 years.

I arrive, unless I am mistaken, at 2,5g / kWh, a little more than half an ass in the SE unit (econologist system).


Thanks for the digital application, I check:

The "gray" CO2 of the EPR is 118 * 12 * 000 = 1,25 M Tons!
Production over 60 years at 80% use will be 1650 * 0,8 * 24 * 365 * 60 = 693 MWh = 792 GWh = 000 TWh

The g / kWh = kg / MWh = T / GWh ... i.e. 1 / 770 = 000g / kWh ... Ok so I validate the 693 g / kWh ...

But it is obviously ONLY gray CO2, a kind of amortization therefore unmistakable ... we must now add the use CO2 ...

If we compare to a car, gray CO2 is 50 to 100 km equivalent according to studies ...

sicetaitsimple wrote:We can then discuss endlessly the method and the hypotheses, again I just wanted to see the order of magnitude we arrived at.


Let us start from the hypothesis, 50 years of technology gap, that gray CO2 is a bit better for the EPR than PWRs ... It is therefore possible that the gray CO2 of current power plants can be in the 4 gr / kWh ... But this is the order of magnitude of the figures "EDF" ALL INCLUSIVE ...

Obviously in nuclear power we will be much lower (Nieme repetition) than in generation of flame electricity ... but advancing such low values ​​discredits the nuclear industry (like those who speak of water injection and decline consumption of 70% ...) ... Well shit here I give pro nuclear arguments! : Cheesy: : Cheesy:
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sicetaitsimple
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by sicetaitsimple » 09/02/18, 11:46

Christophe wrote:Let us start from the hypothesis, 50 years of technology gap, that gray CO2 is a bit better for the EPR than PWRs ... It is therefore possible that the gray CO2 of current power plants can be in the 4 gr / kWh ... But this is the order of magnitude of the figures "EDF" ALL INCLUSIVE ...



On the contrary!

You often say that the EPR is a financial debacle!

The same method applied to the much lower investment costs of the existing nuclear fleet (with the figures of the time) would give a much lower value, perhaps of the order of a quarter of an ass in SE unit.

Which proves one of the limits of the method .....
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Re: Nuclear and carbon: what releases in CO2 / kWh? Figures PWC, EdF, ADEME, Stanford ...




by Christophe » 09/02/18, 12:31

With the figures of the time ... yes! Because sized for 20 years! Since then innumerable works have been undertaken for hundreds of millions per reactor ...

Well I agree, even with these corrections, we stay in the hair of ass!

Now do the same calculation with the fuel management (upstream but especially downstream) ...
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