Is Jean-Marc Jancovici a c ...?

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Christophe
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by Christophe » 07/12/18, 16:59

Okay, the back up is essential from a certain penetration of renewable energies (how much exactly ???) but this is not yet the case and RTE knows very well how to balance and predict production / consumption curves for the moment (hydraulics work very well for this in France) ...

So, in my opinion, the back up does not have to be included in the current price, especially not in contracts "already" signed according to Janco!

Indeed; Jancovici claims that 120 million contracts have been signed in France for the development of PV and wind power. Okay, well believe it, but then where are (where will be) the projects?

That the PV goes more or less unnoticed ok, billions in the wind turbines, it shows ... and by far!

For the moment wind France is that: 10GW at the end of 2015 (corresponding to +/- 10,3 GW produced today cited above) https://www.connaissancedesenergies.org ... n-francais

Park-eolien-france_zoom.png
parc-eolien-france_zoom.png (27.67 KB) Consulted 1704 times


Let us not forget that it takes 10 years, on average, between the start of a large wind project (> 1 MW) and the first kWh produced ...
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by sen-no-sen » 07/12/18, 17:14

Christophe wrote:That the PV goes more or less unnoticed ok, billions in the wind turbines, it shows ... and by far!


These are investments that will be made over a period of several years (edit: decades!).
Image

EDF wants to install 30 GW of photovoltaics on the ground between 2020 and 2035

EDF wants to invest 25 billion euros to install 30 GW of photovoltaics in France between 2020 and 2035. The group mainly relies on large photovoltaic farms to develop renewables in France.

https://www.actu-environnement.com/ae/news/edf-plan-solaire-30-gw-photovoltaique-sol-2020-2035-30250.php4
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by izentrop » 07/12/18, 17:20

Christophe wrote:For the moment wind France is that: 10GW at the end of 2015 (corresponding to +/- 10,3 GW produced today cited above) https://www.connaissancedesenergies.org ... n-francais
But with a load factor of 4.3%, super!
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by Christophe » 07/12/18, 17:44

sen-no-sen wrote:These are investments that will be made over a period of several years (edit: decades!)


Ok EVERYTHING can be explained!

Asserting that 120 million have been "contracted" (signed contract is what it means) in PV and wind power is therefore highly speculative as an affirmation on the part of Janco ... : Cheesy:
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by Christophe » 07/12/18, 17:45

izentrop wrote:But with a load factor of 4.3%, super!


Certainly but this is not the debate here ... the debate is to know where are the 120 Billion invested in PV + solar in France ..

Today and throughout the week the wind load factor should exceed that of nuclear ... 8)
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by sen-no-sen » 07/12/18, 17:56

Christophe wrote:
sen-no-sen wrote:These are investments that will be made over a period of several years (edit: decades!)


Ok EVERYTHING can be explained!

Asserting that 120 million have been "contracted" (signed contract is what it means) in PV and wind power is therefore highly speculative as an affirmation on the part of Janco ... : Cheesy:


It is a roadmap, and to the extent that such a budget is decided there is my sense no speculation in the strict sense, after obviously there can always be events calling into question such expenses.
I forgot to mention that the graph was taken from the report of the course of accounts:Support for renewable energies Page 46.
https://www.ccomptes.fr/sites/default/files/2018-04/20180418-rapport-soutien-energies-renouvelables.pdf
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by sicetaitsimple » 07/12/18, 19:04

Christophe wrote:Certainly but this is not the debate here ... the debate is to know where are the 120 Billion invested in PV + solar in France ..



Let’s be precise: the 120 billion dollars we are talking about are neither an investment nor a "road map".

These are the sums that will have to be paid by consumers (see the CRE graph provided by Sen-no-Sen) between 2018 and 2044 as support for renewables whose contracts were signed before 2018, this support corresponding roughly and to simplify the difference between the purchase price (or additional remuneration) and the market price.


Not too long ago, this contribution was levied via the CSPE (the € 22,5 / MWh you find on your bill), but it was increasing too quickly (€ 3 / year) and therefore the CSPE was frozen at 22,5 € and the supplement provided by taxes on gas and petroleum products…., this under the reign of Mrs. Royal.


When I hear him now shouting out loud on the increase in taxes, I admit I have a little trouble not choking .....
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by Bardal » 07/12/18, 19:29

A few small remarks on the debate and the calculations attached to it.

- for obvious reasons, it is not relevant to compare the various sources of electricity from the installed power; it is the binomial power-rate of real charge, therefore the annual production, which constitutes the least bad index of comparison; it should also be noted that this production should be confronted with hour-by-hour needs, a production arriving when there is no need for it being in principle lost.

- neither is there any need to "calculate" the percentage of non-controllable energy from which major back-up and grid stability problems will arise in France, RTE has already done this and it is around 25% of production (it is moreover this figure, reached, which begins to pose serious problems to Germany, which relies on its coal plants and on French nuclear power to solve them). But the real problems start long before, since any non-controllable substantial production results in a decrease in the production of controllable means, and therefore in a drop in their profitability (this is what has cost the lives of various gas power plants. Germany, and some economic problems in its energy industry).

- it is just as useless to try to assess the back-up capacity necessary in a given country, it is 100% of the maximum needs, essential to ensure supply in the event of a windless period (for PV, it happens every day at 17 p.m., until 9 a.m. the next day in winter).

- it will be noted that a country like Denmark, which has an installed wind power capable of covering more than its maximum needs, actually only consumes 30% of this electricity, the main part being exported to Norway (to step) or Germany; It works because it is a very small country, able to rely on the hydroelectric potential of Norway and the very large German consumer, but that does not prevent it from being a very large emitter of CO2.

Finally, economically, the least bad investment comparison index is the cost of the installed kW divided by the annual load rate; the use of the simple cost of Wcrête promises severe disillusionment to dreamers. Thus, Germany has already committed nearly 500 billion euros to install 25% of its electricity production; and 75% remains to be done ... And what will it be when it comes to electrifying land transport ...

We are very little ...
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by sicetaitsimple » 07/12/18, 19:44

Just a small addition:

These 120Mld are therefore expenses of the French to come (over approximately 25 years) compared to past commitments (until 2017).

I find that it puts the debate on the cost of nuclear decommissioning and waste management a little bit… ...
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Re: Jean-Marc Jancovici is it a con?




by sen-no-sen » 07/12/18, 20:45

sicetaitsimple wrote:
Let’s be precise: the 120 billion dollars we are talking about are neither an investment nor a "road map".

These are the amounts that will have to be paid by consumers


Until proven otherwise everything is paying in our society, so when we project in the framework of a law of energy orientation of future investments it is always with the money of the consumers ...
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