Your opinion on my lighting (MR16 12V vs GU10 220V)

[Flocomotive]

Hello dear econologists.

I read with interest different topics on this forum, I would like some clarification that I have not managed to find.

First, why am I asking you that?

I moved into an apartment, which is equipped everywhere with chandeliers and spots with MR16 halogen bulb 12V (20 or 35W depending on location). I want to change little by little these bulbs by qqch more econological, I'm tired of taking 150W in the mouth when I turn on the light in a room (I know it is not very serious, but I 'do not like).

My first question is this: Was there any interest at one time to put this type of bulbs, rather than the GU10 in 220V?

In several rooms, there is a false ceiling with recessed spots (with bulbs MR16 12V, therefore). Upstream of each spot, there is a tranfo, where it is specified that it is intended for halogen lamps. I read on this forum and elsewhere that it is necessary to pay attention to the tranfo before putting of the bulbs with LED, which I wish to make (the compact fluorescents are not adapted, because they are parts with frequent ignitions).

My second question is: Do not I have interest in removing the transformers and putting GU10 bulbs in 220V? Where do I have an interest in staying in 12V?

I'm not an electric pro, but screwing dominoes does not scare me too much.

Regarding the chandeliers, I imagine that there is a single transformer for each chandelier, but that's not what I want to change in priority (especially since there are some variators on some, so it should also change the switch).

Depending on your answers, I will probably ask you for help!

Goods.

Flocomotive.

[elephant]

The interest is of course aesthetic: superb beam focused on objects, the table, etc .... that's what I have above my dining table and I would not change: it's superb: we see what we eat and the light is superb.
When I have the world, I extend the table and I mount it to adjust the bulbs (4 X 35 rail watts, 2 20 ° beams for the table, 1 bulbs wider towards the ceiling, 1 beam 20 ° to the collection my wife's hippos)
At the time as you say, the technology did not exist to make these bulbs in 220 V.
It is quite normal that halo transformers are not suitable for led's, unless these led's have been designed for "pure" 12V (resistors integrated into the led device). An led works either with 2-3 volts or with a series resistor, integrated or not in which the energy is wasted.

[Forhorse]

The halogen lamps made of 12V (MR16 therefore) generally have a better color rendering index than those in 230V (GU10)
Otherwise apart from this story of IRC and except for security reasons (spot on cable, wet rooms) I do not see any interest in our time to shrink halogen spot 12V

As for the LEDs now it's a bit more complicated. The choice is vast but the reliability and quality of lighting is rarely at the rendezvous.
Most MR16 LED spotlights are designed for continuous sources, so not compatible with the alternating transformer halogen lamps. It is therefore necessary to change the current source.
I have so far find that a MR16 LED spot specifically for 12V alternative, but the lighting is not at the rendezvous.

Otherwise there is also direct GU10 LED spotlight. I have never used this kind of spot (I personally use MR16 12VDC and specific source)

Anyway, after trying a lot, the best lighting is obtained with spots with a large number of small led. because spotlights with 1 5 led high power have a lighting with a very small angle, it lights up a spot and nothing around (a bit like 20 or 35 ° halogen)
My favorite brand in the genre is Xanlite (series LEDxxx 48 leds)

[Flocomotive]

Otherwise apart from this story of IRC and except for security reasons (spot on cable, wet rooms) I do not see any interest in our time to shrink halogen spot 12V

What do you mean by "spot on cable"? As far as I am concerned they are built into the false ceiling. On the other hand, one of the rooms is the bathroom, could that be a problem with the 220V?

Otherwise there is also direct GU10 LED spotlight. I have never used this kind of spot (I personally use MR16 12VDC and specific source)

I can not tell if my tranfo delivers alternative or continuous, but it is written that it is for halogen.

If I change, I do not intend to add transformer, so a priori if I want to switch to LED lamps, I have to go on 220V by removing the processors.

Anyway, after trying a lot, the best lighting is obtained with spots with a large number of small led. because spotlights with 1 5 led high power have a lighting with a very small angle, it lights up a spot and nothing around (a bit like 20 or 35 ° halogen)
My favorite brand in the genre is Xanlite (series LEDxxx 48 leds)

I have been hanging out in the shops, apparently they sell power led bulbs with a wide angle of illumination. But I retain this info, I will pay attention to what I buy. It also seemed to me that the power leds had a better performance (Lumens / Watt). The choice will probably not be simple.

Thank you for the answer.

Flocomotive

[Flocomotive]

At the time as you say, the technology did not exist to make these bulbs in 220 V.

But now, we do in 220V so the 12V has more interest if I understand correctly?

It is quite normal that halo transformers are not suitable for led's, unless these led's have been designed for "pure" 12V (resistors integrated into the led device). An led works either with 2-3 volts or with a series resistor, integrated or not in which the energy is wasted.

That I understood, that's why I came to ask for help.

Thank you for the answer.

Flocomotive

[Forhorse]

The spots on cable is as its name suggests, this kind of spot that stand on two cables stretched to the ceiling or across the room. For reasons of design and security these spots are always in STEL (12V)
For the bathroom it depends on what volume is the spot in question. If it is in the volume 3 no problem for it to be in 230V (if it is IP44) on the other hand in volume 2 it must be obligatorily in 12V

Anyway, very carefully keep your receipt for the guarantee.
I bought several kinds and several brands, many did not even 1 months.
When you pay 15 bulbs or 20 € which is supposed to last for years and that cracks after 20 days, I can swear to you that you do not want to have thrown the receipt.
I found a brand that shines well and holds the shock so now I change more. Everyone has to experiment and find what suits him.

[elephant]

Attention: in bathroom, we can not put any transformer either, I think.
Question lifespan, I have no problem with the "big ones" (Philips, General Electric, Osram, Sylvania). On the other hand, with the luxmeter in support, we are at -50% of flow after one year with the ultra compacts. The larger ones keep their flow longer.

[bernardd]

I think the 12V for lighting is much better suited:
- because of the low consumption,
- for the reduction of the losses for leds which are naturally in direct current very low tension,
- for the absence of electromagnetic radiation,
- for the possibility of using domestic electricity generation with less loss.

Ironing 230V seems a step back.

[Forhorse]

I think the 12V for lighting is much better suited:

- for the reduction of the losses for leds which are naturally in direct current very low tension,
- for the absence of electromagnetic radiation,
- for the possibility of using domestic electricity generation with less loss.

Ironing 230V seems a step back.

Your sure of what you say? it seems to me not frankly objective as arguments
- because of the low consumption
1W remains 1W, whatever the voltage. And that the losses are in the base of the bulb directly in 230V, or in the supply 230V / 12V deported it amounts to the same.

- for the reduction of the losses for leds which are naturally in direct current very low tension,
See above

- for the absence of electromagnetic radiation,
AH ah ah! the old blow of the phobia of the famous electromagnetic radiation ... as if to back the arrival 230V of 50cm would change much thing about it (if it is really harmful of these famous radiations)
And do not forget that for the greater distances at identical power the current is 20 times higher, hence larger losses and need to use larger cables so more expensive to limit these losses.

- for the possibility of using domestic electricity generation with less loss.
I did not understand the...

[bernardd]

I think the 12V for lighting is much better suited:

- for the reduction of the losses for leds which are naturally in direct current very low tension,
- for the absence of electromagnetic radiation,
- for the possibility of using domestic electricity generation with less loss.

Ironing 230V seems a step back.

Your sure of what you say? it seems to me not frankly objective as arguments
- because of the low consumption
1W remains 1W, whatever the voltage. And that the losses are in the base of the bulb directly in 230V, or in the supply 230V / 12V deported it amounts to the same.
... (moved here) ...
And do not forget that for the greater distances at identical power the current is 20 times higher, hence larger losses and need to use larger cables so more expensive to limit these losses.

Currently, okay, no immediate gain, that's why I was considering in the near future or medium, a transition from full lighting circuit to 12V, especially if you want to spend a day in the domestic power generation.

Moreover, the switch to the LED decreases the power of a factor 5 even 6 compared to the incandescence: it is this power drop that makes possible a global passage in 12V

Why are you talking about an 20 factor?

In addition, the LEDs will one day provide distributed lighting, and controlled at each LED by the addition of an infrared sensor presence detector: you imagine a garland that lights up just on 1m in front of a person: -?

- for the absence of electromagnetic radiation,
AH ah ah! the old blow of the phobia of the famous electromagnetic radiation ... as if to back the arrival 230V of 50cm would change much thing about it (if it is really harmful of these famous radiations)

Personally, I have never seen a concrete and detailed study on the effect of 50Hz on fine biochemical processes. We know that there is particle / radiation equivalence, even on very large molecules such as C60. And some experiences remain unanalyzed.

I do not like to sleep in a bed whose head is 5cm of a 230V 50Hz cable in the wall: I know perfectly well that the power decreases according to the cube of the distance. But I also know installers of radio emission pylons ...

- for the possibility of using domestic electricity generation with less loss.
I did not understand the...

The photovoltaic production is continuous, as the batteries: switch to 230V then back to 12V, it's an excursion with a lot of losses and expensive hardware to power 100 or 200W.