The return of incandescent bulbs?

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elephant
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by elephant » 15/01/16, 14:13

It's not just performance. the life / cost ratio is also very important. I modified the chandelier of my living room and replaced the 250 W halo by 2 X 23 watts eco. (I heard them in hot light)

A ladle, my eco lamps are amortized in less than 1000 hours.
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elephant Supreme Honorary éconologue PCQ ..... I'm too cautious, not rich enough and too lazy to really save the CO2! http://www.caroloo.be
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by Christophe » 15/01/16, 14:18

Yes because as I just said: € = f (CO2) or CO2 = f (€) ... depending on how we see the thing ...

elephant, if you want a "less fishy" calculation then try this calculator: https://www.econologie.com/shop/infos/c ... gie-co2-11
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by Christophe » 15/01/16, 20:12

Good while waiting for these possible future incandescent bulbs with nanoparticles not standardized ... I find that the new LED filament bulbs have excellent performance, here is a model led to Filament E27 7W at 800 lumens or a yield of 114 Lm / W:

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by Obamot » 15/01/16, 23:41

Christophe wrote:Technologically I do not know if the LED is 6500K better performance? url please?

For measuring performance in lumens / W, depending the sensitivity of the spectrum used for measurement of Lumens ...

If indeed this spectrum is "wedged" to visible sunlight (that is, the whole rainbow, every wavelength, every color, is weighted the same) then the 6500K is the bulbs that will give the best performance ...

But if the measure spectrum is locked on, say, the wavelength corresponding to the bulbs is incandescance 2700K then it is these that will give the best return.

Also, do not forget that appreciation of light is subjective: some people hate the light of day in the evening at home (yet it is the light they see every day with the sun) ... and swear by hot lights recall the fireside (epigenetic inheritance ???)

Tastes and colors what ...

This is due to the fact that:

1) First of all, the tones in "daylight" are less tiring to look at (optimum for the human eye) than in tungsten color temperature (for example) or worse, mercury of completely orange candelabra ...!

2) Then, on the psychological aspect: it is difficult to properly frame subjective notions scientifically! We eventually get there with notions relating to photography and / or painting! At least that will help me to make you understand what I think about it, after a lot of experiences in this field, by way of example, the film on the life of Rembrandt who has sought throughout his existence to faithfully transcribe "atmospheres", in its quest for the "right tones" in both interior light and daylight, says a lot about this quest for the perfect representation of an atmosphere!

That some "would not like"Neutral tones (considered cold) is not the question, this film teaches us - the colors must be restored correctly and reflect the truth of the world around us, we should not turn the problem upside down (at the risk to end up crazy like this genius of painting!) - if it doesn't please, it's because reality doesn't please, then just direct a spot at 6500K on a colored surface of your choice, to make the tones warmer , "and there you go"! Thus there will be the benefit of a more "cozy" atmosphere but with much less visual fatigue, the eye not constantly trying to switch between the atmosphere as it is VS restore the reality of false colors "of what he sees" or thinks he sees ... (because we have a certain capacity of adaptation relative to our "natural colorimetric evaluation of the color spectrum"and this in a spontaneous way). In fact it is a paradox, since for the eye, 6500K is perceived as the warmest tones, only one does not realize it immediately and especially one does not have any used to lighting, since the eye "expects" warm tones. Actually, if you take a photographer's Kodak color gamut alongside the tones / colors of surrounding objects, what will you see at 6500K? you will simply see that the tones of what there is to see will be "hot" for everything that MUST be seen hot will come out hot (for example the red of the "CANON" logo at 100% magenta + 100% yellow, ditto for the color of the Swiss flag => the famous "swiss red"photolithographs ...) anything that should be" cold "will come out cold (for example the BMW emblem with the blue checkerboard, the blue Twitter bird or the IKEA logo) ... So if your room has them white walls is that it must be white to the eye, or you have to paint the walls an off-white ... yellowish. Because, on the contrary, with a tungsten color temperature EVERYTHING becomes hot, including this which should have stayed cold, and that doesn't really make sense or place to be. It's just that incandescent lights have always screwed our blues with their pissy yellow and we've gotten used to it. But we get used to it much better to get out of it.

3) Finally on the technical aspect:

Cree wrote:MT-G2 LEDs are optimized for use in accent, track, retail display and down lighting applications Where color quality, consistency and optical control are required.
The MT-LED G2 delivers up to [b] 1987 lumens in cool white and 1735 lumens in warm white, both at 18.5 watts [/ b], 85 ° C.


Cool-white = "daylight" (cool white)

They arrive at 137 lm / W : Cheesy:

http://www.cree.com/LED-Components-and- ... -EasyWhite
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by dede2002 » 16/01/16, 08:54

Christophe wrote:
Obamot wrote:Too bad they do not say how many lumens / Watt 40% because it does not say much, MIT he would mix apples and oranges?


Absolutely, it is always difficult to talk about efficiency in% when changing the type of energy ... and the type of energy are different, it is more delicate (not only calculate but also to understand)

If I remember correctly I had a day long ago, felt that the overall performance of incandescent bulbs ranged to 5% ... ie that 95% was going into heat.

In fact a simple temperature measurement would achieve the overall yield when measured on a bulb XW YW energy dissipated as heat, it gives us directly the yield with (X - Y) / X or 1 - Y / X!

Example: If a bulb (classic, LED or neon ... whatever) of 6W 5W dissipated as heat when its yield is gloabl 1 - 5 / 6 17% =

I think it is possible to find these dissipation values ​​on the sites of major manufacturers such as Phillips, Osram Megaman or not? May be looking in the range pro?

valid method for any light bulb without the use of more or less complex calculations (calculate the energy of electromagnetic radiation is hefty anyway!)

Too bad I did not calorimeter tank under the hand ... :(


What will become of the light if it cannot come out of the calorimetric tank?
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by chatelot16 » 16/01/16, 11:08

if you put a lamp in a calorimeter 100% of the energy will end up in heat including what has been transformed into light which will be transformed back into heat after multiple reflection in the calorimeter

to measure the light output you would have to let the light out without letting the heat out ... so even more difficult than just measuring the light

to measure the light of a non-directive filament bulb, just a lux meter and do the calculation considering the light of equal intensity in all directions

to measure a led that is a bit directive, you have to place the lux meter in all directions and make an integration ... a little more complicated but not impossible

you need a good quality lux meter with the true frequency response of the eye: beware of the lux meters which also measure infrared or UV, which results in a lamp efficiency greater than reality
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by Christophe » 16/01/16, 19:15

Visible light heats matter? Is that so???

There are only certain wavelengths that heat certain molecules (microwave oven beyond the visible) this is a very special case ... visible light does not heat the material or very little because linked to the wave length!

What heats matter is infrared radiation ... from the sun ... another question of wavelength.

Ask the adepts of tanning uv lamps if it gets hot ... and replace these uv lamps with infrared lamps to see if it is tenable ...
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by chatelot16 » 16/01/16, 19:42

when you put a light source in a closed opaque box the light energy will end up in heat: at each reflection a part is reflected and another part not reflected is transformed into heat ... and after the number of reflection it everything must be in heat
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by Christophe » 17/01/16, 04:16

Equations please?
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by Gaston » 18/01/16, 11:25

All wavelengths heat matter.

On the other hand, the proportion absorbed is different depending on the material and the wavelength.

The absorption spectrum of liquid water for example shows that the absorption is stronger in the infrared (around 1000 or 2000 nm wavelength), but it is never zero, even in blue where it is the weakest.

Image

In a box that does not let light "come out", it does not matter whether the absorption coefficient is low, or even very low, because the number of reflections on the walls will necessarily be sufficient for all the energy to end up being absorbed.
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