Outdoor lighting savings

[Clay]

Bonsoir.

I would like to have your advice in order to reduce energy consumption (cost compromise) exterior lighting of a factory:
-Energy saving bulb.
-Solar lighting.

What is the most effective solution?

I hope to benefit from your experiences.

Goods.

[Forhorse]

Quite simply, the most efficient solution will be the one with the best lumens / watt ratio.

Solar is not at all (but then not at all) profitable for this kind of application, especially at prices where industries buy their energy. It would take centuries to recoup the investment in solar PV panels / batteries ... as long as it could one day pay off, which is not even certain.

[elephant]

This kind of problem requires study. And it is sometimes more interesting to do something other than lighting and to review the lighting philosophy.
As for photovoltaic energy, it is only a story of big money (investment)

I sent you a private message.

[Clay]

Solar is not at all (but then not at all) profitable for this kind of application, especially at prices where industries buy their energy. It would take centuries to recoup the investment in solar PV panels / batteries ... as long as it could one day pay off, which is not even certain.

I didn't know it could be so fruitless!

This kind of problem requires study. And it is sometimes more interesting to do something other than lighting and to review the lighting philosophy.
As for photovoltaic energy, it is only a story of big money (investment).

What do you think of low consumption bulbs?
(a priori they reduce consumption by 5.)


For information, the installed power is 170kW.

I sent you a private message.

I didn't receive anything, you can try again!

Goods.

[Forhorse]

170Kw? glowing?
you have to spend your life changing light bulbs
If we base ourselves on an average power of 60w per lamp that makes 2800 lamps.
When I see at the neighboring equestrian center where you are lit with incandescent light, with fifty lights they are forced to buy the bulbs by 100 to deal with all those that flicker during the year, I can not even imagine with almost 3000 lights

And if it's 500W projectors it still makes 340 lamps ...

[Forhorse]

Still, I find it strange that someone who is responsible for lighting a factory, especially on such a powerful park, comes on a forum like here to ask that kind of question.
In principle, this type of problem is entrusted to a qualified electrician, or even to an electrical engineering office, and not to the first guy to come ...

[bernardd]

Solar is not at all (but then not at all) profitable for this kind of application, especially at prices where industries buy their energy. It would take centuries to recoup the investment in solar PV panels / batteries ... as long as it could one day pay off, which is not even certain.

I didn't know it could be so fruitless!

It depends on the context. If it is a company large enough to buy panels by container, if it has roofs or flat space where the assembly will be inexpensive, and expertise in electricity, then this may be very interesting.

For information the installed power is 170kW

170KW of power at 8h per night, that makes all the same 1,36MWh per night or 136 € at 0,1 € / KWh and 496MWh per year or 49K € per year ...

What is the type of lighting currently? How many lighting points?

I had to think about this at one time. I know 2 solutions:

- if the current lighting is of the public lighting type with sodium lamps or equivalent, there is a technical solution based on a voltage dimmer, which will make it possible to reduce the light power at times when there is no one to light. According to the feedback I had heard, there can be gains of the order of 20 to 30%, or € 10K to € 15K per year. The advantage, we do not change anything in the installation on the ground, but only at the feeding station. The bulbs used are already very efficient and gain in life at lower voltage.

- the solution I had imagined consisted in putting rather LED lighting on the ground, a bit like on airport runways: there is less glare (so I feel safer because I see better in dark parts ...), driving is naturally more secure (we follow the lines), and we can even put presence detectors which further increase the feeling of safety while reducing consumption. The lifespan will be very long, and we can proceed in small areas to test and get our hands on.

[Forhorse]

It depends on the context. If it is a company large enough to buy panels by container, if it has roofs or flat space where the assembly will be inexpensive, and expertise in electricity, then this may be very interesting.

The problem is that it is not only the investment in panels that must be taken into account. By imagining, for example, that a wholesale purchase makes it possible to have prices which allow a solar kWh to be produced which can compete with a "nuclear" kWh as it is sold to industries, we must add the price of storage of energy, given the power, tons of batteries.
The price of the set of panels + batteries + chargers + inverters, to which we add the regular renewal of the material (mainly the batteries whose lifespan is the shortest of all the components) makes that I doubt that we may one day achieve profitability ...
The only solution to make profitable solar energy currently remains direct grid injection "over the sun"
And again, we see that both for small domestic installation <3Kwp as for "photovoltaic farms" of greater power, the return on investment in a reasonable period of time is only possible with a largely subsidized purchase price.

Has anyone already calculated the time required for a typical 3Kwp domestic photovoltaic installation to be profitable at the "normal" price per kwh sold by EDF at the regulated rate?
Knowing that companies have tariffs on energy even more advantageous, it further increases the duration of return on investment (and again, as I said it is without taking into account the price of batteries and their renewal)

[bernardd]

By imagining for example that a wholesale purchase makes it possible to have prices which allow a solar kWh to be produced which can compete with a "nuclear" kWh as it is sold to industries, we must add the price of storage of energy, given the power, tons of batteries.

Indeed, we do not store if we buy by container. Everything is injected into the network, we are far from photovoltaic overproduction.

Unless you can store compressed air for an Airpod fleet at an airport ;-)

Has anyone already calculated the time required for a typical 3Kwp domestic photovoltaic installation to be profitable at the "normal" price per kwh sold by EDF at the regulated rate?

Of course, this is the basis, all the same.

In the hazy north of France (we also say "Belgium" ) we are at 2h maximum power per day on an annual average, or 750h per year.

In the southwest, it is 3 hours a day on an annual average, or 1095.

I refuse to speak further south, it's too painful

So for 1KWp we are between 0,75MWh and 1,095MWh per year, i.e. between 75 € / KWp and 109 € / KWp of income at 0,1 € / KWh.

At the basic redemption price, panels on the ground or placed on a flat roof, the income then varies between 232,5 € / KWp and 339,45 € / KWp to 0,31 € / KWh.

If we take a benchmark installation price index of € 1 / Wp, or € 1000 / KWp, the gross return on investment in the sale price of electricity is between 13 and 9 years, and between 4 and 3 years at the minimum subsidized redemption price.

As the prices I got for the small "flat" installation are less than 2 € / Wp, we would have a gross ROI in the southwest between 6 and 8 years, which is starting to interest an industrialist for a lifespan 3 times longer.

If a quantity purchase comes to 1 € / Wp, and I think this is possible today, we arrive at reasonable ROIs. Even more in the South, or in the dom-tom ...

[Clay]

170Kw? glowing?

Sorry for forgetting the comma (and not being able to fix it before the answers get carried away) it is:17,0kW

How many lighting points?

In the 70's.

Didn't you answer me about switching to low-energy light bulbs?

Still, I find it strange that someone who is responsible for lighting a factory, especially on such a powerful park, comes on a forum like here to ask that kind of question.
and not at the first gus come ...

If that can reassure you I do not have the lighting at my expense but I am not the first guy either.
I find your point of view rather limited concerning the character of "legitimacy"! what should the opening of a discussion on the forum.