Overconsumption of fluorescent tubes on ignition

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Christophe
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by Christophe » 05/05/11, 10:15

Email response from a reader:

Uh ... in the subject on the over-consumption of fluorescent tubes at start-up you answer next to the plate (the guy was not talking about compact fluorescent but about tubes): you have to distinguish between the tubes with electromagnetic or electronic ballast !
Electromagnetic ballasts, which consume a lot at start-up, are still widely represented even in France (I also have them in my garage!) And still represent almost all in hot countries where electronics are unreliable ...
Note also that the consumption in "stabilized" mode of a good quality electromagnetic is barely greater than that of an electronic ... however, the electromagnetic will probably disappear in the short term, not because of consumption, but because of the price of copper which makes them less and less competitive ...
Source: a friend who works in the last French box that produces electromagnetics ... and therefore the closure is scheduled for early 2012 ...
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by Christophe » 05/05/11, 13:27

Suite:


(...) the peak of overconsumption reaches 300% of the power consumed in nominal mode with a ferromagnetic, but very little time ... then it decreases until the tube reaches its nominal level ... The advantage of electronics is relatively low nominal consumption level compared to a good ferro, on the other hand the starting is much smoother than with a ferromagnetic (especially when it makes flickering failures of ignition with sudden bursts at 4000-4500volts), which prolongs the life of the tubes ...


It would confirm the elephant measurement but 300% even for 10 seconds (probably less in reality) is very little ... we are far from the "super" overconsumption that some talk about ...
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by delnoram » 05/05/11, 20:23

Christophe wrote: we are far from the "super" overconsumption some talk about ...


It is of course on this assertion that the subject left.

Here is a picture of it.

Image

Hence a question that comes to my mind: if a 36W tube consumes at startup as much as in an hour and knowing after measurement that it takes about 5 seconds for the tube to turn on.

36 x (3600/5) = 25920W
25920 / 240v = 108Amps and this over 5 seconds.

: Shock:

my little 6 Amp circuit breaker doesn't trip when it does for an amazing 2kW radiator right? : Cheesy:
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by elephant » 05/05/11, 20:26

Thank you for this superb mathematical demonstration, dear Delnoram!
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by Christophe » 05/05/11, 20:29

Right, I had done the exact same reasoning / calculation awhile ago I know if it's on above on this topic or another.

So it's just rubbish this statement. They are "sandbox experts" ... who better go back to school ...

It was the same sect that had made the controversy intoxication on the electromagnetic waves of fluorescent bulbs. It's a bunch of idiots. The problem is that some believe them ...

Earlier I wrote this:

Those who claim that 1 ignition = 15 minutes of consumption (read on this forum) are idiot péroquets which would be better to open a book of electricity section dimensioning of the electric wires (because if it was the case, the intensity of starting would blow everything up) or else to make measurements of consumption by themselves .
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by delnoram » 05/05/11, 20:32

now 300% for 5 seconds (and still most of this time, it is the heating filamenst that ... heat up and there the consumption if I remember correctly is rather reduced.

So let's go, 36W x 3 / (3600/5) = 0.15W grand max not really enough to panic.

On the other hand, a 36W tube with starter and ballast consumes nearly 45W in reality, but not related to the ignition.
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by sherkanner » 05/05/11, 21:35

When switching on any electrical device there is a peak charge, a current draw, even on classic switches (charge injection phenomenon, we can sometimes see a flash of lightning forming when we press the button. switch, especially on old models)

So, yes the 108A can be reached and even more, but for times less than a microsecond (or even femtosecond, a dirac pulse in fact), too short for any circuit breaker or fuse to have time to react, nothing to be alarmed about.

Now I do not know the necessary techno, but it is possible that at the start it takes a stronger current than that announced, the time for the circuit (RLC I think) to stabilize.
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by dedeleco » 05/05/11, 22:58

These are the inductive and electrostatic effects with resonances, a bit like the ignition of a car, which can give 100 times the starting voltage if correctly mounted or bad luck !!
With a 4,5V battery and a copper coil on a soft iron core (usual mains transformer coil), voltages of thousands of volts are obtained by quickly cutting the current (breaker), principle of cattle fence or anti- Boar.
Faraday's law of induction of 1830:
http://videosphysique.blogspot.com/2010 ... oi-de.html
So this destroys the transistors and therefore we put suitable protections, otherwise the power supplies die by putting on the current and even quickly as they age.
So on mains as soon as we have coils, worse with capacities, and so badly designed, without protection, we obtain overvoltages and strong peak currents, which last the characteristic time of the system (milliseconds to seconds, or even less and well longer if heating over a certain time and fluorescent lamp ignition, a few tens of seconds to minutes)
The coil size and capacitance sets the times, microseconds without iron cores and milliseconds with fine coils and iron.
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