Neon that cracks and blows the circuit breaker replaced by 230V Led Neons

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Christophe
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Neon that cracks and blows the circuit breaker replaced by 230V Led Neons




by Christophe » 16/09/20, 20:52

I have 3 neon lights (1, 2, 3) in a row on the same switch in the garage ... and I have an electrical problem that I would like to solve ... well above all to understand.

a) For a few weeks the neon 3 has not lit any more, changing the starter and tube (tested 3 pairs of each ...) does nothing ... impossible to turn it back on so, I don't insist, I do not look at the transformer because the other 2 were enough for me ... but I leave the neon lights and the starter on the chassis ...

b) The other 2 neons were working well until this afternoon when the 2nd one no longer manages to light up (flashing when switching on)

c) I'm not too worried because the neon lights that "flash" do not generally pose any particular concerns except that ...

d) ... while tinkering I notice an unpleasant smell of electric "burnt" ...

e) ... and after about 1 hour I hear a few clicks (not electric but deaf noises), already intrigued by the smell I look at the neon in the middle and it is in the process of CRACK in front of my eyes !!

f) So I quickly cut the power, removed the neon and the starter ... I test 2 other pairs and it does not work ...

g) I continue my DIY on neon 1 ... and after about 30-45 min, the leads jump (main circuit breaker 300 mA)

h) Unable to reset the circuit breaker as long as the 3rd neon is on.

i) The pellets had never jumped before ...

So questions:

1) How and why can a neon crack?

2) Who would have an explanation? I think it was the transformers that smoked 1 by 1 since changing the starter and neon lights did nothing ... at least that of the 1st. These are however old ferric transformers (logically very robust ...)

3) Is there a possible link between these 3 failures? (like reactance, reluctance?)


Thank you ...
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Ahmed » 16/09/20, 21:15

... from neon to nothing? : Mrgreen:
It's ugly your story, a sign that we must go to the ugly! : Wink:
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by izentrop » 16/09/20, 22:14

Hello,
Christophe wrote:after about 30-45 min, the leads blow (main circuit breaker 300 mA)

h) Unable to reset the circuit breaker as long as the 3rd neon is on.
Possibly a short that caused the ballast to overheat which may have warped and now leaking to ground.
Normally the 30 mA differential of the light circuit should have tripped before the main one.

If the end of the tubes is blackened, they are good to replace.
LED tubes are being replaced Image
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Christophe » 17/09/20, 00:53

Yes I think the ballasts are out of order ... but why the 2 (or 3) in such a short time? I will open tomorrow ... I have stock in reserve ...
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Christophe » 17/09/20, 00:54

Ahmed wrote:... from neon to nothing? : Mrgreen:
It's ugly your story, a sign that we must go to the ugly! : Wink:


Ahahah ... Ahmed Devos?
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phil59
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by phil59 » 18/09/20, 18:33

Loose cable?

With an old lamp, we would see the brightness drop at times ...
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hmmmmm, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm, hhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm, huh, hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

: Oops: : Cry: :( : Shock:
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Christophe » 28/10/20, 14:10

I was able to move this project forward ... motivation, motivation ...

This is what is hidden under the 3 neon structures ... I understand better why it jumped!

Long live fireproof concrete slabs !! : Cheesy:

In the order of connection from the switch:

20201028_123401 .jpg


20201028_123410.jpg
20201028_123410.jpg (374.49 KB) Viewed times 10548


20201028_123416.jpg
20201028_123416.jpg (481.96 KB) Viewed times 10548


The 420 V / 3.6 µF capacitor (something I've never seen on a neon mount ???) has probably been added and it feeds the phase of each transformer ...

20201028_123509 .jpg
20201028_123509 .jpg (46.43 KIO) Accessed 10548 times
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Macro » 28/10/20, 18:24

The capacitors added to the neons ... it is beyond a certain number on the same circuit ... To avoid arcs at the opening of the circuit which destroy the switches ...
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Christophe » 28/10/20, 18:28

Yes I suspected it was something of the kind ... only in the cellar I had er ... 2 * 5 = 10 and no condo found during the dismantling ...

In the garage there, I have a condo for only 3? : Cheesy:
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Re: Neon that cracks (explodes?) And trips the circuit breaker?




by Macro » 28/10/20, 20:34

maybe recovery .... Me in our garage is industrial site recovery .... and I have in almost all ....
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