NiMh battery life (cycles)

[Lietseu]

Thanks thanks !!!

Clearly, I would like to know if speaking of overload, you understand that ideally it would unload the batteries each time before reloading? and if, yes how far?

On the other hand, on a laptop, would it be better to leave the battery (Li-Ion) in charge permanently?
Or on the contrary, should it be used regularly and in this case what is the ideal threshold of discharge before recharging?

Or to make it even clearer at what threshold to put the triggering of the standby, or the "warning" which would warn us that it is time to charge the battery? 30% remaining, 20% remaining?

Can we consider that the chargers supplied with the laptops are good enough, or would you advise to buy better quality and if so where?
I prefer that you are sometimes less "purely theoretical" and a little more "practical" by giving examples which can enlighten the "less strong in math" of the econological class ...

Can we consider the so-called "intelligent" chargers as the universal panacea or should we look further and if so, what advice to our environmental friends.

Thank you and meow to all

What do you think of this quote (which does not apply to Li-Ion)

* Memory effect:
When the charge of
rechargeable battery is weakening, the production
electrical current is insufficient
for the operation of the devices. he
then recharge the battery by placing it
in a charger. At that moment, if the
stack is not completely empty, the
charge is incomplete and fixes a new
lower maximum capacity. It is
what is called the memory effect.

[chatelot16]

the lithium ion of the telephone have a tension which increases clearly at the end of the load: therefore all the telephone is a good built-in charger which does not overload

with the NiMh there is no increase in voltage at the end of the slow load: no automatic detection possible: unloading completely is therefore a good solution

I had a little doubt saying that unloading has a whole cycle, while reloading only what should save cycle parts: all wrong: the wear due to overload is worse than that of normal cycles

the proof is the number of cycles reached with these whole cycles! far superior to what you do at home with cycle parts and overloads

in addition an intelligent charger that would count amp hours remaining in the batteries that you want to charge will better know his batteries ... eg find the weak link that reduces the autonomy of a device

[Lietseu]

hmmm

Is not it good my question ???

meow

[Christophe]

Where is she? The question?

The problem is we Often equates "memory effect" to chemical wear of the battery!

The "pure" memory effect is only achievable in rare extremely cyclical and precise cases such as ... satellites ...

A Li Ion is typically given to 600 charge / discharge cycles at 80% capacity. That is, after 600 cycles, it has only 80% of its original capacity and is considered by the battery manufacturer as HS.

In reality we can of course use it much more.

600 cycles for a GSM that is charged every 5 days it is still 3000 days is more than 8 years ... it will be dead before anything else!

Also we speak of complete cycles, and with the li ion we can also make cycle Nieme. That is 600 life cycles = 1200 half cycle (recharge to 50%) life ...

In other words: no need to wait for your li ion to be fully discharged to recharge it except for the first 5 to 6 charges (called "formatting")

ps: for a laptop, there is (is) a rumor that said thatif used on mains, it was better to remove the battery because it damaged it. I think it was valid with old laptops which did not have "optimized" charging circuits which are compulsory for li ion ...

Otherwise what you call chargers are power supplies, the "smart" charger is inside the laptop. So one or the other is kif kif, besides when you need one, we have a universal one on the shop: https://www.econologie.com/shop/chargeur ... p-357.html


reps: it's a little HS compared to NiMh should perhaps be made a subject "optimization and use of li ion battery"

[Lietseu]

I therefore rephrase with regard to Li-Ion batteries, is it dangerous not to use them while leaving them on a charger "smart" or reputed to be such, or is it better to use them in a preventive way in order to "keep them in good shape?" form"?
What is the ideal charging threshold for this type of battery, 30% remaining, 20% remaining?
Is it preferable to unload them before recharging, a practice called by the charger manufacturers of "REFRESH", therefore refreshing ....

Thank you for your patience and your clarity.

Meow

[Christophe]

I answered you it seems to me: the li ion not worth to unload until the end, what counts is the number of complete cycle (cumulated) ... the only thing that must be done c ' is the formatting (5 to 6 first complete discharges ...). Thats all!

And yes I think you can leave the battery from now on a laptop used on sector ..

[Lietseu]

Well, that's what definitively raises my doubts

Thank you Christophe for your British phlegm and your proverbial patience

I must say that for my part, as I had long children who used many (too) batteries, there are 25 years that I buy Accus and I can only congratulate myself ...

Of course, you had to reload them quite often, but now with the high capacity 1700 and even 1800mA / h you can see it coming!

In principle I buy +/- 3x more battery which allows me to always have costs in the "smart" chargers which seem to be, since the replacement rate is on average 2 per year on a park of +/- 24 batteries (some even, as Christophe says, 10 years of good and loyal service!)

What makes the year a substantial saving of disposable batteries, which is good for our little planet


Meow and see you later

[bamboo]

I answered you it seems to me: the li ion not worth to unload until the end, what counts is the number of complete cycle (cumulated) ... the only thing that must be done c ' is the formatting (5 to 6 first complete discharges ...). Thats all!

Yes and no. This is what the builders say but, as a small thing, they still say that it is good to do complete cycles from time to time ...

My personal experience: I had been told (and continue to do so) that a Lithium-Ion was in any case unusable after 2 years.
Personally, I still use who have 7 years ... Like what, the way to use them is more than decisive!

The 1er link of a little google search ( http://www.google.fr/#hl=fr&source=hp&q=lithium+ion+cycle+complet&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=1f7a7857c2500030 ) brought me here: http://www.apple.com/fr/batteries/ Then : http://www.apple.com/fr/batteries/iphone.html

And look what is written on the 1ère page:

You can also charge a lithium-ion battery when it's convenient for you, without having to wait for the full discharge or complete a full charge cycle of the battery [...]

While the 2e page says:

Make sure to perform at least one full charge cycle per month (by charging the battery to 100%, then letting it drain completely).

QED: Doing complete cycles is the best way to prolong the life of the batteries !

[Christophe]

Ok to do full maintenance cycles on li ion ... on our VAE they say to do one, maintenance every month 3, even case of non use.

But in a general way a lithium battery is, on cycling, much less sensitive (for their lifetime) than nickel batteries (cadium or metalhydride). On the other hand, they are much more sensitive on the quality of the load (strong current at the beginning then weak current)

After a series of battery, there will be some that will last longer under the same conditions of use: chemistry is not a science quite accurate ...

Lietseu, you've probably missed these 3 recent topics on the batteries:

https://www.econologie.com/forums/batterie-p ... 10148.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/piles-jeta ... 10144.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/chargeur-e ... 10140.html

[chatelot16]

some inteligent charger make me laugh ... it should be that these chargers do not take the user for a con!

an intelligent charger should have memory, the user should be able to use it to understand its battery

alas if we could read what is happening in a phone or computer charger it might be seen that the charging procedure is not optimized at all ...