LED G4 on a ceiling light transformer (Min 50W - MAX 160W)

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not cool
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LED G4 on a ceiling light transformer (Min 50W - MAX 160W)




by not cool » 24/01/11, 10:40

Hello,

I installed my LEDs yesterday on the light fixture (12V MIN 50W MAX 160 W transformer)

0) with a 20W halogen bulb => lights up by itself OK

1) With the 8 LEDs - 4 * 3.5W + 4 * 1.8W => 17.7W => Do not light up. (flashes)

2) With a 20W + 3 * 3.5W + 4 * 1.8W bulb => 37.7W after three minutes (flashes and a LED pecks!)

3) With two 20 W + 2 * 1.8W + 4 * 3.5W bulbs => 57.6 W Everything OK

Technically, why did the LED burn out?

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Re: LED G4 on transformer of a ceiling light (Min 50W - MAX 160W




by Gaston » 24/01/11, 11:08

pascool wrote:I installed my LEDs yesterday on the light fixture (12V MIN 50W MAX 160 W transformer)

2) With a 20W + 3 * 3.5W + 4 * 1.8W bulb => 37.7W after three minutes (flashes and a LED pecks!)

Technically, why did the LED burn out?
It seems to me that if the "transformer" (in fact probably a switching power supply) indicates MIN 50W, there is probably a good reason.

When the load is less than 50W, it is likely that the output voltage is not properly regulated and rises well above the 12V, which destroys the most fragile LED :?
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by Christophe » 24/01/11, 11:27

I think 20W bulbs smooth the transformer current and so it "works" (but it won't work for long) ...

It is important not to use this kind of transformer (pseudo sine) on the LEDs (I think that's what you have): https://www.econologie.com/shop/transfor ... p-311.html


Image

Some LED bulbs are compatible but not all ... the problem is that the compatibility test is ... quickly destructive! The seller is supposed to warn ... and know the compatibility: AC, DC and false AC.

With LEDs you must use a 12V DC power supply or a ferric transformer (true sine) but they are becoming rare:

https://www.econologie.com/shop/alimenta ... p-363.html

Image


Edit: here are 2 subjects who have already treated the subject

https://www.econologie.com/forums/ampoule-le ... t8772.html
https://www.econologie.com/forums/quel-trans ... t2719.html
Last edited by Christophe the 24 / 01 / 11, 16: 48, 1 edited once.
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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 13:51

I confirm: I have a ramp on an old transformer redneck (even more archaic than your photo) and it's been working for about 1 year ...

I also think that it is often easier to go back to a 220 V spot without a transformer! (unfortunately not possible for spots like "stretched wires" for obvious safety reasons, finally risk of electrocution !!!)
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by Gaston » 24/01/11, 14:16

Did67 wrote:I confirm: I have a ramp on an old transformer redneck (even more archaic than your photo) and it's been working for about 1 year ...
A real transformer does not actually have this kind of problem (I have the same configuration).
By cons used at low power, its performance is quite poor.

Did67 wrote:I also think that it is often easier to switch to a 220 V spot without transformer!
This is equivalent to using the power supply integrated into the LED bulbs in 220V ...
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by Christophe » 24/01/11, 16:28

Here are 3 "old rednecks" for those who do not see what it looks like: often very square and heavy (nothing to do with pseudo AC).

Image

Same with us as with didi: we have an old redneck on a stretched wire ramp of which here is a photo:

Image

On the ramp, see photo: it's a big mix of different LED and halogen bulbs (more than a halo I think now). In fact it is a bit of our life-size test bench, it is a passage corridor with frequent on / off.

It is still there (2007 for ours) but I don't know if it is still manufactured in the modern versions. Anyway the 12V MR16 is clearly losing speed compared to the GU10 in 230 (much better as said Didi).

Afterwards it is entirely possible to pass 230V through a fixture with stretched wires but at one's own risk ...

ps: another subject on leds and electronic transformers https://www.econologie.com/forums/ampoule-le ... t8772.html
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by Alain G » 24/01/11, 16:33

Gaston's first answer is the reason for the breakage of your LED, you can compensate by putting a 25 volt 670mfd capacitor in parallel to stabilize the switching transformer, the only flaw is that it will stay on for a short time during the power cut!
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by Christophe » 24/01/11, 16:36

Yes Alain, it would smooth the current and therefore we would approach a real AC. But question: why it is not automatically installed on AC false sinuses ???

If not, what is the method for determining the capacitance of the capacitor? : Idea:
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by Did67 » 24/01/11, 16:40

Christophe wrote:
Afterwards it is entirely possible to pass 230V through a fixture with stretched wires but at one's own risk ...



At home, after the (insulated) wire, the currentb goes to the base via the two metal rods which hold the spot. Naked.

So 12 V is fine.

But 220 V is no more and no less than two bare wires !!!!

It's no longer risk, it's suicide !!!
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by Christophe » 24/01/11, 16:46

Uh yes the same for the rods on ours (see photo above).

But rooh suicide should not be exaggerated either, it is more time to tramp and you have a 30/300 mA right? : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

But I don't recommend it, I say it's possible and risky (in addition must load all the bases with GU10 base so good ...).

If the fingers are far away (which is the case when suspended from the ceiling) and the spot is quite inaccessible (children, animals ...) it is possible ... air at 230V is still a good insulator, isn't it?
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