Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!

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eclectron
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by eclectron » 06/11/19, 14:00

oldclou wrote:
Being a little lost, To know if I have to go back in Single phase with EDF (500 euros connection fee) and replacement of the table.
Or balance my three-phase installation by replacing the main board anyway (higher cost for a three-phase switchboard)


Personally I would not hesitate a second not to switch to Mono BUT I would ask EDF to take care of the connection costs, since the installation worked before the linky and that the linky was imposed by EDF.
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by vieuxclou » 06/11/19, 14:20

The tables are well distributed by Pb. the oven is properly connected to the 32A circuit
At first I will distribute my large consumers on my Sorting installation
(the limky measures the power of each phase in real time)
and if I encounter too many worries, I would go back to Single-phase with EDF.

Thank you, have a nice day
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by Petrus » 06/11/19, 18:40

So if I understand correctly, the linky does not tolerate imbalance between phases and will cut the juice if we exceed 1 / 3 of the power subscribed on a phase, even if we consume less than the power subscribed in total?
So it's like a single-phase installation that worked well before the linky thanks to the margin of the mechanical circuit breaker, but trips with the linky, except that here we do not exceed the subscribed power.

I'm already not hot for the linky for reasons of privacy and reliability, but I thought at least be able to enjoy the installation of the linky to lower the power of my installation (also 12kVA three-phase).
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by sicetaitsimple » 06/11/19, 19:12

Petrus wrote:So if I understand correctly, the linky does not tolerate imbalance between phases and will cut the juice if we exceed 1 / 3 of the power subscribed on a phase, even if we consume less than the power subscribed in total?


It was already the case before Linky it seems to me .... Except having a non-compliant installation.
After that, there is the never settled debate (see other threads) on the "margins" of Linky, it is not quite the same subject.
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by Petrus » 06/11/19, 19:34

sicetaitsimple wrote:
Petrus wrote:So if I understand correctly, the linky does not tolerate imbalance between phases and will cut the juice if we exceed 1 / 3 of the power subscribed on a phase, even if we consume less than the power subscribed in total?


It was already the case before Linky it seems to me .... Except having a non-compliant installation.
After that, there is the never settled debate (see other threads) on the "margins" of Linky, it is not quite the same subject.

Exact, the circuit breaker is set to 1 / 3 of the power on each phase, if a phase exceeds this power, it trips.
That the linky cuts the juice if we consume more than the power subscribed on the contract does not shock me too much, but I thought that the linky meter supposed to be "intelligent" allowed a certain margin if the total power consumed remains below the power subscribed, but this is apparently not the case given the present example. It does not surprise me too much, it would be to the advantage of the customer, and it is not the policy of the company : Evil:
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by izentrop » 06/11/19, 19:35

The linky has in principle the same tolerance as the old one. For 12 kVA the circuit breaker is set to 60 A, 20 A per phase. Measurements have shown that he is rather more tolerant than the former.
Personally, I have a cap, washing machine, dishwasher, dryer, 2 ovens, a microwave 900 W and other large consumers. I am in 9 kVA mono and no worries.
Without heating, I turned in 6 kVA. EDF only allows one subscription change per year, I believe, but the difference is only € 9 per year.
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by sicetaitsimple » 06/11/19, 20:36

Petrus wrote:That the linky cuts the juice if we consume more than the power subscribed on the contract does not shock me too much, but I thought that the linky meter supposed to be "smart" allowed a certain margin if the total power consumed remains below the power subscribed, but this is apparently not the case given the present example.


Are you kidding, I hope?
According to you, taking the example of a three-phase subscription of 12kVA, Enedis should authorize to consume up to 12kVA in one phase?
The three-phase in individuals is in extinction, and it's a good thing. It is a fact of history, and unless there is a specific need, such as the use of a fairly powerful machine tool, it is only found in relatively old installations.
Now, if you want to consume 12kVA on a single phase, on a three-phase installation of a certain age, try. Firefighters are the 18.
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by Forhorse » 06/11/19, 21:17

I will bring a testimony going in the opposite direction ...
At the club we have a three-phase subscription (for reasons of fairly powerful sprinkler pump which are in tri) we theoretically have 20A per phase (12kVA subscription)
Every year we organize a raclette evening, with the number of guests at the table we need three devices. Out of every year, between lighting, heating and suddenly the raclette machines we had a disjunction inevitably in the early evening because it was necessary to arrange to put the 3 devices on 3 different phases and thus seek outlets of current on 3 different phases (based on the indications of the old electronic meter to know if we had found or not)

Since the beginning of the year (or the end of last year I don't remember much) we have had a linky counter.
This year, during our traditional raclette, we did as usual: plug the devices at random on the sockets available (never way to remember on which phase is such socket ...) then go the meter to see if it's balanced ...
Well it was not, we had everything on 2 phases and the third nothing (about 100VA memory) and it did not break!

So were we at the limit of theoretically allowable power per phase, or did we, because we did not exceed the total power of the contract, the linky to a wider tolerance of imbalances I do not couldn't certify it.
Still, the other years it was disjunct if we were unbalanced, and that there was obviously unbalanced and linky did not trigger ...

Otherwise, just a little reminder:
In a well-made electrical installation and standards (standards in force for at least 30 years because it's already what I learned in BEP) the cable section between the branch circuit breaker (the one that limited the power drawn off according to the contract before the arrival of linky) and the distribution board in the housing corresponds to the highest rating of said branch circuit breaker.
Simply so that the subscribed power of the subscription can be increased without risk.
This point is controlled by the consuel.

There is therefore technically no risk that linky allows all the power subscribed on a single phase to pass under a three-phase contract since in any case it is the branch circuit breaker that will operate if the corresponding current exceeds this which is physically allowed through the wiring.
If there is a limitation "as before", that is to say that the power per phase must not exceed "roughly" one third of the subscribed power (in reality it is not quite true) it is purely commercial because a so-called "smart" meter like the linky is able to modulate the limit per phase in relation to the total power consumed with regard to the subscription taken out.
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by Remundo » 06/11/19, 21:39

it is not difficult to balance (a little) the phases on a sorting installation with neutral, it is enough to change the phase of the biggest consumer on another phase less solicited.

No line to break, it is in the table that it is necessary to intervene, to carry a "red wire" with an adequate copper section ...

Regarding the domestic three-phase, I have 2 old barracks wired in sorting with the neutral and I am doing well, it is interesting even for those who want to charge EVs like oxen at> = 22 kW for example. Personally I do not use this possibility.

There is another advantage also of having sorting when doing PV, you can have 3 inverters, which slightly increases the yields by further dividing the PV field into independent zones. And also if an inverter goes down, we still have 2 / 3 of production that lasts.

the three-phase is also interesting to avoid overcurrents and to use wire of more modest sections. For example 60A on a single phase, it is very muscular (10 mm² of copper), but it is only 3 x 20A with sorting, which easily takes on 2,5 mm² or 4mm²
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Re: Compliance Table Electrical Three Phase Not Balanced! Linky jumping!




by Christophe » 07/11/19, 08:51

izentrop wrote:If the tables are well marked, allocating large consumers should not be difficult. : Wink:


a) That's what I think too ...

And even if it is not spotted there are pager continuity or remote display tools that allow you to quickly know which wire is going where ...

b) I am astonished that the three-phase subscriptions to KVA accumulated are at the same price as the single-phase!

For EDF it is more interesting to work in three phase since they also need to balance the phases! A power plant obviously produces three-phase ...

So pulling on the 3 * 3 kVA network is better than 1 * 9 kVA for EDF ... (and ENEDIS and all the others ...)

The three-phase subscription should logically be cheaper ... but obviously it is 2 son in addition to be drawn during installation ... it may be the amortization of this therefore ...

A three-phase is never perfectly balanced ... but the average power per phase is necessarily reduced compared to a single-phase connection!
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