ROI calculation of a CFL or LED

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obmanut
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Consumption is not everything




by obmanut » 25/04/09, 12:15

The compact fluorescent lamp:

_ contains mercury which is the most harmful metal for living organisms (do not throw in normal circuits).
All mercury thermometers had been removed because of the high toxicity of this metal.

_ contains fluorescent powders whose safety has not been proven.
These fluorescent powders mixed with mercury are highly toxic because they are spread throughout the room in case of breakage of the bulb. A simple cut with a piece of the tube of the bulb can be extremely dangerous for the health.

_ generates a large electric field up to 3 m around the bulb (do not use unless 1 m of the human body).
These electric fields may exceed 120 V / m for a 15 W bulb and 160 V / m for a 20W bulb (the maximum allowed is 41 V / m for mobile phone transmit antennas in France and 6 V / m in many other European countries). The compact fluorescent lamp should never be used as a bedside lamp.

has a luminous efficiency always lower than that indicated on the packaging.
The indication of power equivalence with an incandescent bulb has absolutely nothing to do with the light output of the lamp itself. Note that compact fluorescent lamps having the globe shape containing the light tube provides a lower luminous flux of 30% compared to a lamp of the same power whose tube is visible. The only valid indication is the luminous flux measured in lumens, but this indication is never mentioned on the packaging of the lamps.

_ can generate harmful ultraviolet radiation for the eyes and skin.

_ has a discontinuous light spectrum, often consisting of a few emission lines. Illumination of this type can cause eye disorders.

_ has a low color rendering index (CRI). This index is usually expressed as a value between 0 and 100.
Daylight has an IRC = 100. Incandescent lamps have an IRC between 95 and 100. Compact fluorescent lamps have an IRC between 30 and 90. It is strongly discouraged to use lamps with a CRI lower than 90. This indication is never mentioned on the packaging.

_ rarely lights up instantly. The full light intensity is only reached after 5 at 10 minutes of operation.

Its consumption increases tenfold during the entire lighting period.

has a light output which gradually decreases with use.

_ its service life reduced by about a third for repeated ignition - extinguishing cycles (corridor, WC, bathroom).
Note that a classic bulb installed in the toilet lasts 6 to 8 years because of the short duration of use per day. Taking into account the number of ignition cycles - extinction, a CFL lamp would not last much longer. Where is the economy, knowing that a compact fluorescent lamp costs 10 to 15 times more expensive?

_ generates very important noise on ignition (for example, strong disruption of TNT decoders at the ignition of a compact fluorescent lamp).

generates electromagnetic radiation during operation.

_ strongly disrupts the reception of AM (amplitude modulation) radio waves within a radius of 2 m around the lamp.

_ has a color temperature changing on ignition and end of life.

_ does not work below 5 ° (do not use outdoors).

_ can not be used on dimmer.

_ has a larger footprint than a conventional lamp (often not compatible with current fixtures).

_ has a disproportionate bulk in high power (an 20W lamp, supposedly corresponding to a conventional 100W bulb, has an 10 space that is larger than an incandescent bulb).

_ may present, due to its operating principle, a more or less troublesome flicker.
The compact fluorescent lamp is an unsuitable lighting, even dangerous, when using rotating machines.

_ has a lifetime in normal use much lower than that indicated on the packaging.
The service life mentioned on the packaging is only an indication of the maximum service life of the light tube itself in continuous operation. The service life of the control circuit is not taken into account. To obtain the lowest possible cost price, manufacturers use low-end electronic components at the limit of their characteristics. Similarly, overvoltage protection components are often removed for cost reasons.
Users who have already adopted compact fluorescent lighting for energy saving reasons note that the actual life of the lamp is equivalent to conventional lamps.

_ is much more expensive to buy than a classic light bulb.

_ may cause crackling or whistling during operation.

_ may present fire hazards in case of malfunction of the control circuit, the internal fuse is often removed for cost reasons.
Several cases have been reported where the base of the lamp had melted, resulting in the complete destruction of the associated luminaire.

Incandescent lamps are doomed to disappear at the end of December 2012 for the benefit of compact fluorescent lamps by the signing of a convention of the Grenelle Environment where the only signatories are the Ministry of Ecology (the state), the agency of the environment (still the state), the EDF (whose choices are dictated by the state) and all distributors.
All find a pecuniary interest in the case. Distributors who sell a product 10 times more expensive and will sell fixtures accepting these new lamps, and the state that touches a larger VAT given a much higher selling price.
The only advantage in the use of compact fluorescent lamps is the saving of energy. To put the pill of a high selling price, it is invoked a longer life. All the disadvantages are passed over in silence.


Notes on Energy Saving Tables:
_ An incandescent lamp of 40 W costs between 0,50 € and 1,20 €
_ A 9 W compact fluorescent lamp costs between 8 € and 13 €
_ A compact fluorescent lamp has a life of 8000 hours, considering a single ignition.
_ The kwh EDF costs 0,11 € (not counting subscription or taxes)
_ An incandescent bulb dissipates 95% of its energy to heat. This is a great auxiliary heating in winter, precisely in the occupied room. The apartments being equipped with thermostat, this additional heating will be generated by conventional heating in the case of use of compact fluorescent lamps. It is true that this heating is useless in summer, but summer lighting is used 3 4 times less than in winter. Disregarding this backup heater to generate when using compact fluorescent lamps is heresy.
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by Christophe » 25/04/09, 12:18

obmanut, there are many bullshit, lies, counter truths: in short, a concentrate of poisoning in your remarks... : Evil:

The proof: megaman bulbs disassemble most of your arguments (which were maybe 15 years ago ...)

I take 3 "at random":

a) Operating temperature + 5 ° C min.

Whatever!

Operating temperature: -10 ° C to + 40 ° C for Ingenium models and some "pro" models go down to -40 ° C!

economic and LED bulbs

b) Incompatible on dimmers

False: economic and LED bulbs

c) Bad CRI:

Archi false: already the IRC of the classic bulbs tates the 80 ...

On the contrary, there are special fluocompact daylight bulbs (something that does NOT exist in conventional bulbs except ultra specific and very expensive therefore). here are some economic and LED bulbs

Contrary to what you claim, the IRC is ALWAYS mentioned on the packaging of Megaman bulbs: from 82 for classic bulbs to> 92 ... However, I have never seen an indication of IRC on classic bulbs ...

So stop the fumette because before doing coarse copied / pasted, the least thing is to learn a little about technology ... today!

I'm tired of trolls in your genre that make a real propaganda for some reason ... inadmissible probably ... : Evil:

To equip oneself in fluorescent bulb is to earn money (and "earn a lot" of money see these calculations) and save energy and more than with a solar thermal panel (I do not even talk about the pipo that are PV suempore ...) ... just do not buy shit 2 € bulb: take quality bulbs!

Oh I bet you will answer me that my opinion is pipoté because I am judge and part ... : Lol:

And apart from the glued copywriters, what do you do in life?

I do not expect an answer from you.
Last edited by Christophe the 01 / 12 / 14, 17: 44, 1 edited once.
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obmanut
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Answer without insult (unlike ...)




by obmanut » 25/04/09, 13:14

In response to the previous message:

_ Megaman bulbs are practically not available in standard distribution circuits.

_ I have never seen a sale of compact fluorescent lamp to 2 €.

_ I have never written that the IRC index was mentioned on the packaging of incandescent bulbs. Just read more conscientiously.

_ The IRC index is never mentioned on the packaging of lamps usually sold in current distribution circuits. Just consult the distributors' shelves.

_ The IRC index of all Krypton and halogen lamps exceeds 95.

All my "bullshit" is easily verifiable, you just have to want to do it. Just give it a try too, which I did!

By the way, I am neither a judge nor a party. I inquire, I try and I see. That's all!
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by Christophe » 25/04/09, 13:33

Do not you think of Megaman? Well it falls well you can buy from us ... I remind you the link: https://www.econologie.com/shop/ : Mrgreen: : Mrgreen:

Otherwise, Ik € made fluo less than 2 € (5 € 3 for example).

Those are big shits that do not light well and that do not take 6 months: in this case your vehemence against fluocompactes defends itself because this case, the fluo is worse, largely, than a classic bulb (as much on energy as on pollution / recycling) ...

You will also find some at 2 € in "fairs excavations" or equivalent ... but you might as well throw your money out the window ...

Yes for the IRC but if you blame it is never indicated on fluo (which is already wrong in itself) it implies that it is always indicated on the classics ...
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by abyssin3 » 25/04/09, 15:19

_ contains mercury which is the most harmful metal for living organisms
Okayand it is obviously an underestimated problem that will pose many problems in the years to come.

_ contains fluorescent powders whose safety has not been proven.
Disagree : do you have a source about that? never heard spoken. What is the composition of this powder?

_ generates a large electric field up to 3 m around the bulb. These electric fields may exceed 120 V / m for a 15 W bulb and 160 V / m for a 20W bulb
Disagree
: give a reference! where do you get it from where exactly?

has a luminous efficiency always lower than that indicated on the packaging.
All right,
it's business ... just as it certainly goes down over time.
et disagreebecause even in spite of that the output is always much better than an incandescent lamp.

_The only valid indication remains the luminous flux measured in lumens, but this indication is not never mentioned on the packaging of lamps.
Yes,
but not all of them indicate it. You have searched badly. And since the equivalence with incandescent lamps is based on these values, your reasoning above is not worth much.

_ can generate harmful ultraviolet radiation for the eyes and skin.
Disagree,
because these bulbs are glass, and the glass stops the ultraviolet radiation. Where then gives consistency (ref.) To what you advance.

_ has a discontinuous light spectrum, often consisting of a few emission lines. Illumination of this type can cause eye disorders.
Disagree
: that's not what I observed using a diffraction spectrum pointed at this type of bulb, on the contrary. And you? you find quoi in this way???

_ has a low color rendering index (CRI).
Disagree.
for now everyone says the opposite, and these bulbs have a whiter light, so more efficient to the human eye than those incandescent.

_ rarely lights up instantly. The full light intensity is only reached after 5 at 10 minutes of operation.
All right,
it depends on the capacitor and on-board electronics. Those that light up quickly (same as the tubes) are more expensive.

Its consumption increases tenfold during the entire lighting period.
Disagree,
once again you take it out of a hat like a magician. As the light intensity drops I want to believe it, consumption is something else (even if in the end it comes to the same).

has a light output which gradually decreases with use.
_ has a color temperature changing on ignition and end of life.
All right,
it's like the batteries of electric cars: 300km of new autonomy, 130Km / h max, and after 3 years? (100Km, and 110Km / h max?)

_ its service life reduced by about a third for repeated ignition - extinguishing cycles (corridor, WC, bathroom).
All right,
still why "a third" rather than a quarter? for now my tubes in the bathroom have been holding for many years ... But any ecological gesture goes through common sense, that's for sure.

_ generates very important noise on ignition (for example, strong disruption of TNT decoders at the ignition of a compact fluorescent lamp).
generates electromagnetic radiation during operation.
_ strongly disrupts the reception of AM (amplitude modulation) radio waves within a radius of 2 m around the lamp.
Disagree :
where do you get that ?! Still of on dit, where studies really proved?


_ does not work below 5 ° (do not use outdoors).
_ can not be used on dimmer.
False!


_ has a larger footprint than a conventional lamp (often not compatible with current fixtures).
All right,
it must be used in the right cases as I said above.

_ may present, due to its operating principle, a more or less troublesome flicker.
_ may cause crackling or whistling during operation.
Disagree,
The bulbs / tubes that flicker or sizzle are at the end of their life (= HS) or the capacitor is to change, for the bulbs it is necessary to change the whole bulb.

The compact fluorescent lamp is an inadequate lighting, even dangerous, when using rotating machines.
: Shock: Are you a psychopath or what?

_ has a lifetime in normal use much lower than that indicated on the packaging.
All right,
if you take a cheap one. If you take the brand (philips) electronics hold up (except "brand" Ikea, which did not make me 1 month ...)

_ may present fire hazards
And not incandescent bulbs?

For me, the main problem of these bulbs is recycling: today we install thousands, a good part of which will not do their time for quality reasons (so no ecological advantage). And in 10-20 years we will end up with thousands and thousands of ampoules to be treated including mercury, gas, electronics, etc.
That's why I find leds more interesting, even if longevity issue and light power, it is very similar.

Now use incandescent bulbs to heat, explain me:
This is a wonderful auxiliary heating in winter

What interest of this formidable additional heating in summer? put an aircon more ??? And your formidable Auxiliary heating only heats a few tens of W over several thousand of the central heating ... This is a great rather average.
Not to mention apartments that have central heating (like at home) that can not be adjusted. What interest? to open windows in winter because it's too hot? to install an air conditioning? it's true that at the financial level it's really interesting ...
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by abyssin3 » 25/04/09, 15:22

Christophe wrote:a concentrate of poisoning in your comments ...

Here, that summarizes well!
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by Christophe » 25/04/09, 16:26

Thank you Abyssinian for these supplements because honestly in front of so many "stupidities" I didn't have the courage, that's why I took 3 points at random ...

What makes me laugh is that most of the bulldozers against fluocompate bulbs are unaware that the physical technology used is the same (almost anything) that fluorescent tubes luminescent (called neon generally but it is a mistake) which probably equip 80% of factories and workshops in the world for decades!

This cabal against compact fluorescent bulbs has also only begun since we talk about banning conventional bulbs: this is all but a coincidence!

:|
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by Hasardine » 25/04/09, 17:12

I just wanted to say that Megaman is compact fluo without liquid mercury!
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by Christophe » 12/12/15, 12:21

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by Did67 » 12/12/15, 14:33

Faced with retrograde imbeciles of all kinds, I always remember that when Gustave Eiffel began to build his famous tower for the Universal Exhibition of Paris, there was movement against quite vehement ...

The unfortunate ones, they are forgotten (even if there remains historical traces of their fight) and they have devoured by the worms since a long time.

The Eiffel Tower, repainted a number of times, is still there and known around the world.

So is it worth answering?


PS: Which does not mean that, like anything really existing in this world, compact fluorescent does not have some flaws!
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