ROI calculation of a CFL or LED

[Christophe]

Ok I propose that you file a complaint against all manufacturers of economic light bulbs for false advertising.



If it's pollution that bothers you, know that there is still much worse than the manufacturers of economic light bulbs ...

You will take advantage of it to file a complaint against the car manufacturers, against EDF, against the tankers ... because the issue is false advertising green and greenwashing: they are TOP!

And stp make efforts on your spelling is very painful to read.

Regarding the EU ban, you know that sometimes, politicians think before making laws, and in this case, I think that it will be beneficial for the planet (provided that we respect the rules of recycling bulbs and this at all levels) .... although of course there are other things to do too! But it's already a step forward ...

But there will always be "green" extremists like you to bitch about and against everything ... we don't live in a perfect world but there are bitch that are worth more than others. This is, in my opinion, not justified ... at least not with the hatred that you put there!

[andre-34]

That's right, am a little out of the nails. The flu and its 40 ° C fever also played ...

Exactly, from a chief déconologue!

[andre-34]

No what makes us especially moan in history is that it has become a constraint !!! Whether imposed in the name of ecology while the product is eminently polluting.

As far as I'm concerned, I do not care about the price of the lamps since I've had them all over the house for several years (although when you buy 7 for a chandelier ...)

What annoys me too is that just as well when one of the chandelier will jump, it will be necessary to be sure to find the same. And here I'm not sure (change the 7?) ....

What does not suit me in the story is that we cheat on the life that is established a bit like the conso of a car ...
What does not suit me either is that the two elements are not detachable.
What does not suit me it is also the VAT which will make that the State will put full the excavations as with the triangles / vests obigatoires in the 20 millions of cars.


What annoys me the most is that we will swing in the nature of highly polluting elements.

I would like a group to be created to go against this decision and we can continue to buy low power incandescent bulbs type 25 W.
The same applies to high-power quartz bulbs, which are often installed on presence detectors and are subject to frequent ignition cycles. Their prohibition will require to get rid of the supports and put what instead? To illuminate as much, will have to put several lamps, draw wires etc ..


All to please Greenpeace ...
It would be highly subsidized by manufacturers that I will not be surprised.

[Christophe]

Ok André, here is a summary table made by recycling "pros" (recyclum), it is however "incorrect" or incomplete, especially on repeated ignition ...



Recyclum would have already recycled 57 Millions of light bulb in France! Huge I find !! Thank you ikea !!

Source: MyLamp

[Christophe]

Here is a 1997 document aboutenvironmental impact of all discharge tube bulbs summary here: https://www.econologie.com/ampoules-fluo ... -1583.html

And for the grumblers:

The evaluation of the life cycle of light sources, "from cradle to grave", teaches us that on average and on a European scale, the electrical energy consumed throughout their lifespan is responsible for more 90% of their effect on the environment. The life cycle analysis of a tubular fluorescent lamp carried out by an independent British firm shows that the energy consumed contributes to 99% in its impact on the environment.

Even if the reduction or elimination of the hazardous materials used already contributes to the protection of the environment, the most effective contribution is, of course, the increase in the luminous efficiency of the sources, that is to say improving the transformation of electrical energy into light energy.

Here is a newer version (2006): https://www.econologie.com/impact-ecolog ... -3726.html

[Patatrace]

Regarding the performance of compact fluorescents, when I see the new bulb 30W Megaman referenced on the shop I tell myself that we start to achieve a very interesting performance (66,6 lumens per watt) and that their size also decreases.

But I wonder if we can not reach the limit of this technology? I hope not in any case, because the LEDs seem to me inappropriate for domestic lighting (yes I know there is the new 3w, but it implies to use a lot to cover a large area, which is still climb the bill ...)

[Christophe]

If, this curve shows that we arrive at a saturation of the compact fluorescents stagnates at just over 100lm / W (for larger models):
https://www.econologie.com/forums/eclairage- ... t7005.html

On the other hand there are other points where the manufacturer can work:
- decrease in warm-up time
- increase in service life
- improvement of the manufacturing process
- reduction of dangerous metals
- etc., etc

In other words: the pure light output is important but it is not everything in a light bulb.

[A dreamer]

Hello to all econologist,

I want to say thank you for this file, I will try to use it for a project.

For the question of performance:

I also mention the removal of ferro-magnetic ballasts replaced by electronic ballasts.

For the question Pollution Lamps

glass recycle lamps require less energy to be melted (unlike sands)

the metals composing the lamps are resold on the metal market

Mercury is regenerated and recycled.

it remains an ultimate waste photoluminescence powders that are demercurized and buried.

cf. www.recylum.com

One thing is bothering me:

why do we recycle glass from lamps and not light bulbs that should not even be thrown away in the glass but rather in household waste?

the case of "1 for 1" with a private individual.

A lamp in a home has a life of at least 1

So I buy my lamp in the X Store, I pay the ecotax that will allow me when my lamp will be at the end of life to give it to the famous store X which will have the obligation to put it in recycling in the appropriate sector.
however, I have to keep proof that I bought this lamp in the X Store.
Me first I would not be able to keep a sales receipt for so long (besides is the eco tax appears on a receipt of cash? The law requires it seems to me).

Is it possible for an individual to return a used lamp to a waste at no cost (since it has to pay an eco-tax) or proof?

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Back on the subject of excel file.

I think it would be interesting also to make a comparison between: the cost of manufacturing a lamp and the economy to achieve the use and those for both types (bulbs and lamps)

However, I think that this information remains difficult to obtain.

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[Christophe]

Is it possible for an individual to return a used lamp to a waste at no cost (since it has to pay an eco-tax) or proof?

Yes, of course, but all the sellers who pay the eco tax should also offer ballot boxes, much like batteries ...

Back on the subject of excel file.

I think it would be interesting also to make a comparison between: the cost of manufacturing a lamp and the economy to achieve the use and those for both types (bulbs and lamps)

However, I think that this information remains difficult to obtain.

For starters, we have a flash version now https://www.econologie.com/economie-d-en ... -4021.html to test here: https://www.econologie.com/calculateur-ampoules.html

The manufacturing cost is proportional to the cost of sale.

So it's a safe bet that between a classic bulb sold for € 1 and its economic equivalent sold for € 6, the "ex-factory" price would be in the same proportion: 1 to 6!

In all cases the cost of gray energy (manufacturing) of an economic bulb, assuming that 100% of the price = energy (which is obviously ridiculous and greatly increased), is lower than what the bulb allows to do win during its lifetime.

The impact on energy saving of compact fluorescent bulbs is therefore largely positive.

Only black spot: recycling but by choosing long-life bulbs and quality, this black point can be greatly reduced!

[A dreamer]

Thank you Christophe for this enlightenment (it was easy the one)

Yes, of course, but all the sellers who pay the eco tax should also offer ballot boxes, much like batteries ...

Quite apart from that, the eco-organism recylum, which is the only one approved for the reprocessing of WEEE of the type supplied by lamps after a request from a retailer, collects cash.
Of course, no one can collect anything: there is a minimum weight to have each year to benefit from the collection for free (as well as other criteria such as the available surface etc)