Hidden consumption washing machine

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Christine
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by Christine » 30/11/07, 15:21

iso14000 wrote:but the guy who designed the standby circuit we told him: "your budget is 1.01 € for the function, so he made it with a capa, a resistor, a zener and that's all!

ouèlcom in ze rieul weurld

There is nothing more "stupid" than a washing machine, but consumers should not feel that they are buying the same machine as 30 years ago. So you have to change the facade to give the illusion of a "high-tech" product.
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jonule
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by jonule » 30/11/07, 15:30

yes but if we asked consumers (washing machine and nuclear electricity) if they would prefer to put € 5 + in the day before to limit consumption, I'm sure they would accept!

what changes anyway from the liberal capitalist discourse privatisalist and especially dictatorial in fact!

PS1: I sell my washing machine, TBE 10.000 rpm 5000 W 10 €
PS2: I'm looking for a bubble washing machine with domestic hot water inlet (to connect to thermal solar panels).


the worst in disinformation is the ad which tends to confuse the incredulous that it is with photovoltaic solar panels that we heat hot water ./ ...
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by Johnny » 05/02/08, 17:14

I did the same test (with PM230) on my washing machine: 16W too
To answer one of the questions, it's an Ariston AVL 135 bought 2 years ago, and classified A ...
Like what !
Looking at the texts, the energy labels only take into account consumption during the washing cycles, so the manufacturers work on it but let themselves go on the rest!

I did a calculation:
At the rate of 3 eco cycles (0.85kWh) per week, it consumes 132.6kWh a year, and moreover, because of the 16W in standby, it consumes 135kWh more in the year !!

On my dishwasher: 9W, it's better, but it's not that yet. However, it is a Miele bought just 6 months ago!
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bamboo
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by bamboo » 06/02/08, 11:29

That revolts me. : Evil:

I wrote to Ademe so that all consumption is taken into account on all devices.
I intend to do the same with my MP.

Hope it evolves!
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Solar Production + VE + VAE = short cycle electricity
Leo Maximus
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by Leo Maximus » 06/12/22, 12:06

CARRU wrote:It's not just television that has a consumer watch;
some recent washing machines do not have electro-mechanical buttons but sensitive push buttons. Power is applied from a circuit already in service. A measurement with the PM230 wattmeter allowed me to see a consumption of 16 watts for the machine ... when stopped.

Topic more relevant than ever!

The commissioning of my washing machine is done with an I/O pusher, so there is a standby circuit to supply the pusher circuit.

Until recently I unplugged the socket, but it's still easier to install a socket switch which is less bulky than a power strip with a neon light and its one meter fifty cord...

I took the opportunity to measure the standby current with the ammeter, it is 58 mA. With the mains measured at 235 volts, that's 13,6 watts.

With 8600 hours of standby time per year that would be 116,96 kWh consumed in the year.

Savings made with the socket switch: around €20 per year less on the bill.
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izentrop
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by izentrop » 06/12/22, 12:35

Leo Maximus wrote:I took the opportunity to measure the standby current with the ammeter, it is 58 mA. With the mains measured at 235 volts, that's 13,6 watts.
Hello, if it is with a basic multimeter, the value is often overestimated, because the signal is not sinusoidal, you have to multiply by the power factor...
A European directive limits standby power to 0,5 W for a number of devices and 3 W for connected devices
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Leo Maximus
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by Leo Maximus » 06/12/22, 16:37

Interesting remark, but the question of the power factor does not arise too much.

I assumed the standby circuit was resistive. I reasoned all or nothing, either the consumption is too high so I cut. Either the consumption is very low then I leave. It does not matter the cos φ.

Anything above 5mA has been switched off or unplugged for a very long time.
For 25 years, I have estimated the savings at 4000 euros with the kWh at 0,11€.

But the point is good. So I'm going to redo the measurements by systematically looking at the face of the oscillating signal.

The current measurement is made with an AOIP MN5121 which measures in RMS. It is a professional device.
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by Christophe » 06/12/22, 17:41

Most consumers take into account the cos Phi (except the very first prices of m...)...it was already the case with the PM230 mentioned in 2008 above...

I had estimated a long time ago that the overall consumption of standbys in France was roughly equivalent to 1 nuclear reactor... there must be a subject lying around on this.

Again this forum was ahead and not just a little...

ps: I would be very surprised if the cos phi of the devices on standby was bad...
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by Exnihiloest » 06/12/22, 21:41

 
Whether to measure currents, voltages, powers, there are three magic letters to remember "RMS".
If your devices are not RMS, the results will be very approximate or even fanciful. I can't imagine that 13W can be spent on standby without a component heating up.

For the powers, there are TRMS ("true RMS") wattmeter clamps, which therefore produce the product of the instantaneous values ​​U*I and integrate them, giving the real power consumed whatever the form of the signal (provided that the frequencies of its spectrum remain within the limits of its band, which is generally the case with mains currents). It's not given.
There are also cheap RMS voltmeters and ammeters, but bad idea for power because Vrms*Irms is not equal to Prms.

If not, for electronics do-it-yourselfers who already have a modern oscilloscope, you can use one channel for the voltage, another for the current, and the math functions to calculate the product and its average. Such an oscilloscope can even be cheaper than a wattmeter clamp, but it requires a bit of practice to use.
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Re: Consumption hidden washing machine




by izentrop » 07/12/22, 09:26

Leo Maximus wrote:I assumed the standby circuit was resistive. I reasoned all or nothing, either the consumption is too high so I cut. Either the consumption is very low then I leave. It does not matter the cos φ.
Unless they are powered by a capacitive circuit with a large reactive component or a switching power supply.

With a setup like this Image you can check if your multimeter is true RMS.
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