Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 15:40

Did67 wrote:I do not want the first and the second makes me vomit.


I'm not saying that the system is perfect, but by doing nothing (= leaving your money in the bank), you give full speculative power to your bank, which she will not hesitate to speculate with your money (with EXACTLY the same effects on the real economy that you denounce) ... And of course by pouring you only crumbs ... (when you get crumbs ...) so you leave the power to our executioners.

This is the message I'm trying to get across: bitcoins are a transfer of this power, it's a chance to change that and improve "financial democracy" (even if we won nothing with bitcoins, that worth leaving the banks for this reason!)

So if you are so anti speculation (I respect this choice) then withdraw 100% of your bank savings, put everything under a mattress and leave only the minium in working capital on a current account to live ... there at least you'll be sure no one is speculating with your money (and still the current accounts are also used to speculate ... but hey we're not going to get into extremism to happen at 100% bank lol)
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 15:55

Christophe wrote:What more can I say to try to convince you of the shit of the current system ?? And again I rely only on the louse of the tip of the iceberg that I know ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:


It looks like I'm lucky, here is an article of the day that illustrates a little more the decay of the banking system (another one-sixth so) ... even at the postal bank (one of the most virtuous in France ...) ...

https://www.lesechos.fr/finance-marches ... 139410.php

The bank's money order service is suspected to have been used to finance terrorism. The financial department has opened an investigation.

It is a product of which La Banque Postale will stop the marketing which is in the sight of the financial office. According to information from the Les Jours website, confirmed by the prosecutor's office to AFP, La Banque Postale is the subject of a preliminary investigation for suspicions of non-compliance in the fight against money laundering and the financing of terrorism.

At issue: the operation of the "money order" service of the banking subsidiary of La Poste, which allows to quickly transfer money to a third party and that the bank had planned to remove in January 2018. To justify the cancellation of this historic service this summer, La Poste had argued that over the last five years, its use had dropped by 25%.

Operations for the benefit of terrorism (...)
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 19/12/17, 16:55

From my point of view, you get caught up in a reasoning - wrong from my point of view, but I could be wrong - that by taking your money out of the banks and by giving it to an algorithm (behind which there is a, your eyes, natural persons), everything would be better ... You can accumulate as much evidence as you want that the banking system is rotten - indeed it is, at least as much as are those who do. serve, that won't give you the start of an ounce of proof that the "bitcoin" system won't!

It is not by rejecting a "regulated tyrant", to throw themselves into the hands of small, equally formidable Kmehrsbits - simply, for the moment, they do not weigh anything, so it goes unnoticed! - that we will move forward! This is still only my opinion.

It is, still according to me but I am only an old idiot having lived a little, the nth rehash of a "free system", - therefore unregulated. Too great to be true. There was, for those with gray hair like me, "free radios" was a struggle - well, that dates back to the early 80s. The result of freedom? A huge brainless machine, pumping part of the jackpot from the pubs. Interest: none! There was the net, Google, Facebooks and everything else, just as nice in principle (a free, universal service, accessible to all, in short all the virtues of the net). To end up as a real machine to deal with personal data, to siphon off advertising manna, to influence our behavior and perhaps tomorrow to manage our health ... There was Uber and the food deliveries ... There was Ryanair and its self-employed pilots ... Each time, under cover of freedom, huge machines to make cash, relocated, tax-exempt, were set up ... By opening our eyes, we saw modern slavery (because self-consented! Absolutely brilliant !!!) which was hiding behind - well which was not even hiding, that we did not want to see, blinded by "freedom"!

And you still dream ???

In my analysis (but I could be wrong), it is an umpteenth version of this type of "great liberation" of the system ... The story begaye. The freedom of multinationals like that of start-ups is the freedom to milk the less well off. Some have the full weight of their financial power, of their lobbying, of their tentacles ... The latter to be in virgin territory, without regulation ... The time for the regulatory power to start work, and billions are accumulated. Some have become the world's first fortunes ...

I could be wrong. But I am afraid, for those who put the little they have in these systems, that I am not mistaken! That they just blinded themselves in an umpteenth "drunkenness of freedom".
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 19/12/17, 17:08

This obviously has nothing to do - though!

Here is a champion of deregulation who finds a taste for negotiation - and no doubt, consequently, to these collective agreements:

Michael O'Leary, the ultraliberal managing director of the Irish low-cost company Ryanair, has eaten his hat. He took up the pen on Friday 15 December to address the pilots' unions in Ireland, UK, in Germany, Italy, Spain and Portugal, inviting them to negotiate “with the aim of recognizing them as representative bodies of Ryanair pilots.” The company wanted to avoid its first strike in its thirty-two year history.

In recent months, the balance of power has been reversed in air transport. The overstaffing of pilots was followed by a shortage of flight crew. "


Learn more about http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... wTRtXgd.99

Of course, after having "milked" the system to the core and built a fortune!
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Ahmed » 19/12/17, 18:33

We are all speculators, mostly unintentional, therefore responsible but not guilty ... How do you think it is possible to operate daily with the standard of living that is ours? Of course, work, merit, ingenuity exist and play a role, but that would not guarantee us access to such cheap goods and services if the price took into account all the negative externalities (environmental and social ): our false opulence is based on the exploitation of the weakest (humans and animals) and the plundering of natural wealth.
No need to outbid directly, on the pretext of short-circuiting the financial industry ...
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Petrus » 19/12/17, 20:15

Imagine a future world where the practical disadvantages of crypto-currencies have been settled. The exchanges are in bitcoin or other, immediately reliable and with low transaction costs. Deposit banks no longer exist, trading is done without them (do not worry about investment banks, they speculate in cryptocurrencies).
How will this improve the lot of humanity?
The problem is not the banks, but the lack of regulation of them. With crypto-currencies, we replace just one system deregulated by another that can not be regulated.
In a liberal system there are plenty of mechanisms to accumulate wealth (speculation is one), but to redistribute it is another story ... The inequalities will continue to worsen, we just change tool but the system remains the same.

Speculation can not benefit everyone, there are bound to be more losers than winners, it's like lotto, not everyone can win at the same time.

What is amusing with these crypto-currencies is that they are defended by anti-capitalists because they make it possible to do without banking but also by capitalists because they are impossible to regulate. I'll let you guess who really will benefit (hint: it's still the same).
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 19/12/17, 23:34

We always come back to the same thing: presenting something "free" like the grail ... However, by definition, it is deregulated. So benefit the smartest / the most dishonest / the most thief / the loudest / the biggest mouth / the most dishonest ... CQFD.

On this point, we are in agreement ...

The "catch" is that freedom can easily be presented as an "ideal" ... So as something that makes you dream.

One can also remember, historically, how much anti-capitalist systems such as communism, Trotskyism or Maoism have raised the crowds and dreamed (and not that naive!). And we saw what the translation gave to the reality of these reveries ...
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 20/12/17, 02:15

Did67 wrote:From my point of view, you get caught up in a reasoning - wrong from my point of view, but I could be wrong - that by taking your money out of the banks and by giving it to an algorithm (behind which there is a, your eyes, natural persons), everything would be better ... You can accumulate as much evidence as you want that the banking system is rotten - indeed it is, at least as much as are those who do. serve, that won't give you the start of an ounce of proof that the "bitcoin" system won't!

It is not by rejecting a "regulated tyrant", to throw themselves into the hands of small, equally formidable Kmehrsbits - simply, for the moment, they do not weigh anything, so it goes unnoticed! - that we will move forward! This is still only my opinion.


a) I'm not saying that we have to give up 100% banks, I say that we must give them less power ... and that bitcoins are an excellent opportunity accessible to all! Who knows maybe that will scare them so much that it will moralize the banking system? (we can always dream ... it's not forbidden anyway!)

b) Yes, there are people behind bitcoins ... there are even millions of them ... much more than those who are currently doing stock exchange courses ... I think ...

In this sense it is more democratic than the current system ... or a single trader or a single bank can decide the share price of an action (with all the consequences for the real economy ...)

Worst food speculation is abject !! Who proves to you that your money is not used in your bank?

c) Will not "be", already I appreciate that you only speak in the future and not in the present.

No I have no proof, but there is strong suspicion that it is better than the worst currently no? See all the arguments I posted above ...

By cons as it is managed by machines and this on a global scale (the blockchain) ... there are no feelings, unreliability and bad (unless they have been programmed to .. ), no political risks either ...

It would still be extremely surprising that all the countries of the world are legislating against bitcoins together when they can not agree on the climate, a much more serious subject ...

Finally, a machine is neither selfish nor greedy ... it will not put it backwards ...

c) Why do you mention a dictatorship of the "bits"? Can you develop? Bitscoins are financial tools (but not only), neither more nor less ... it is the use we make of these tools that can lead to a dicature ... but there you have to develop it please. ..

Otherwise well found the "kmehrsbits";) I like it :) even if I do not share the idea ... the worst kmehsbits are still those of facebook I think :D

Did67 wrote:And you still dream ???


Do not you see a little too much, on this blow, the evil everywhere?

Free radios have contributed to an unprecedented cultural diversity, as in everything there is good and bad ... and it is perhaps not the best that have survived ... just like on the internet: they are the most "smart" (and the smart one is the devil as a reminder ...)

The Internet is a great tool, even if there is a lot of deviance (everything could always be better).
Would you be where you are on your research and advanced on phenoculture without internet?

Did67 wrote:I could be wrong. But I am afraid, for those who put the little they have in these systems, that I am not mistaken! That they just blinded themselves in an umpteenth "drunkenness of freedom".


Once again, I never advised to put "the little" that we have in bitcoins but a part (the one that you are about to lose ... for some people to lose 100 € is unbearable ... I can understand that those there could not invest in the corners. Except that, one thing is certain it is that they lose money by leaving in dormant bank accounts or paying less than inflation ... the loss is assured ...) ...

On the contrary, I think, I could be wrong, that this is a great opportunity to put a little, the clocks on time ... if UBS starts to panic is not for nothing ... they are afraid to leave feathers ...

ps: glad that the debate takes and extends to something other than the purely financial aspect of bitcoins ...
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 20/12/17, 03:25

Petrus wrote:What is amusing with these crypto-currencies is that they are defended by anti-capitalists because they make it possible to do without banking but also by capitalists because they are impossible to regulate. I'll let you guess who really will benefit (hint: it's still the same).


Good remark!

But why assimilate anti-banking and anti-capitalism? This is the 3th time on this subject?

I only condemn the abuses of the current banking and financial system ... not capitalism in the broad sense (as didi reminded, it is still the least worse ... although there were some regrets of Russian communism when even)
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 20/12/17, 10:05

Christophe wrote:
Do not you see a little too much, on this blow, the evil everywhere?

Free radios have contributed to an unprecedented cultural diversity, as in everything there is good and bad ... and it is perhaps not the best that have survived ... just like on the internet: they are the most "smart" (and the smart one is the devil as a reminder ...)

The Internet is a great tool, even if there is a lot of deviance (everything could always be better).
Would you be where you are on your research and advanced on phenoculture without internet?



Here you have the answer to the question of why I'm talking about the future ...

My thinking is not technical. It is of a "philosophical" nature.

Yes, if you want, I "see evil everywhere".

Exactly, and I keep writing it, repeat it on the thread devoted to the Vegetable Garden: "nothing is perfect in this world". So in everything, there is good and bad ... So yes, evil is everywhere [even if there is not only evil].

I make the observation, sad, discouraging, but I do not see many counter-examples (I do not find any; this formula is just a "verbal prudence", not having the pretension to know everything, to know everything) : the systems built on the best ideas end up drifting ... And the more the initial "dream" was "strong", the more a huge field opens into which the "evil" rushes (dictators, profiteers, "systems "of all kinds) ...

You are right, it was not all bad, neither in free radios, nor in the internet, nor in Ryanair. Not even in Communism, Maoism ... Not even in religions (despite the Crusades, the Inquisition, Daesh ...). The fact remains that at the end of the day, we end up with "crappy systems" which "milk", "exploit", mistreat, sometimes kill ...

History stutters: always remembering that Hitler came to power democratically, through "good" elections - I dare not write "free", that would not be correct [I don't know why people prefer to forget that! as if he had fallen from the sky !!!] by promising to solve the problems of poverty, misery, following the crisis of 29 !!!!!! Good god, no one often takes history!

I make the sad observation that men are not up to all these "noble ideas". And that inevitably (it seems to me), profiteers or dictators settle in the breaches, and surf on the reveries of these "little men", well encumbered by their too powerful brains, of which they do not arrive. to dominate the emotions - and therefore to discern what are "daydreams" - thoughts having a religious character - and what is the "true reality" that we are constantly confronted with. In real reality, there are "salops" ...

Even Mandela must turn in his grave when he sees what his heirs have made of his fights!

If you look at the world with your eyes open, it's sad. But it's...

I obviously cannot "demonstrate" that things will go badly in the future for bitcoin. I can only bet on this "philosophical" basis (and not on "technical" criteria)! Because evil, in fact, is everywhere. Including and above all, with the best intentions - we no longer mistrust!

I can explain why, out of ethics, I refuse to enter into a speculation - because "to win" with bitcoins is to grab "value" (monetary) without doing anything. It is, in biology, the very definition of parasitism ... But, in my philosophical vision, I also know that "parasitism" is part of the living. So "blaming" the parasite makes no sense. I just prefer to be a "symbiote".
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