Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!

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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 18/12/17, 05:19

It is the hospital that does not care about charity https://www.latribune.fr/economie/inter ... 62044.html

If Swiss banks start to flip it's a good sign !!

Inevitably they do in their pants because they will lose their power ... the power they have with the money of their client ... I am convinced that we are witnessing a revolution ... and like all revolutions there will be suffering ... losers and winners!
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Petrus » 18/12/17, 23:59

What is the difference with classical speculation? When the bubble bursts, the result remains the same, there are some winners (first come and go) and a lot of losers.
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 00:42

Absolutely, that's what I kill myself to say to all the detractors who spit on the "bitcoin bubble" ... there is no difference with classic speculation ...But as for the crash it is not at all that happens: the stock market crash is caused by collusion between banks (obviously unspeakable), the case of bitcoins is historically a novelty: if banks can there participate, all individuals can also, in this sense it can prevent the crash!

And if there were a crash, the advantage is that at least here we will have done without the parasites of intermediaries (= the banks and that is probably why they cry over their moms houhou the ugly bitcoins !!). ..

Blockchain can really change the world of finance ... and that's just the start!

Adjustments to quotes, there will be a collapse, not at all ...
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Petrus » 19/12/17, 02:28

I don't see how the crash could be avoided, the current explosion in the value of bitcoin is not due to people wanting to buy goods and services using this currency, they just want to speculate on it. When there are not enough new buyers of bitcoin to pay the profits of the old sellers, the value will plunge.

The blow of popular speculation is good story-telling, but individuals can speculate for a long time.
To convert its national currency into cryptocurrency it is necessary to go through an intermediary, similar to convert cryptocurrency into money usable for shopping, we just replace the bank by another intermediary.

For this to be a real alternative to banks, it would be necessary to be able to pay its daily needs in cryptocurrency, there arises the PB of the energy cost of the transactions which must also be fast and reliable. And then there must still be some stability for this currency to be accepted by traders, the remarks of the banker in the article you quoted are relevant.

I think this experience will demonstrate again that we do not need banks to create inequality (see the experiments on game theory).
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 19/12/17, 12:51

I do not want to dig my brain for futilities (virtual).

I read this article published on the website of the newspaper Le Monde [in my eyes, Le Monde remains a newspaper doing journalistic work and in particular, flushing out the "fakes"]:
Nine keys to (finally) understanding cryptomania
Small pedagogical lesson from Monopoly to understand bitcoin, this currency whose number is limited to 21 million.
THE ECONOMY WORLD | 19.12.2017 to 11h31 • Updated 19.12.2017 to 12h31 | By Arnaud Leparmentier (New York, correspondent)

It is with bitcoins like mathematics for some college students: an intellectual blockage. So rather than rationally explaining this currency with scary words - blockchain, cryptocurrency - let's proceed by analogy. Imperfect analogy but which allows for the pedagogy of bitcoin.
1. Monopoly tickets
Bitcoins are simply Monopoly bills. They have no value in and of themselves except that the players got caught up in the game and decided they had some. However, behind a bitcoin, there is nothing, no legal guarantee of being able to buy anything. Their number is limited - as in the Monopoly cash register - to 21 million and we are witnessing a madness: the players rush by putting thousands of real euros or dollars on the table to buy Monopoly tickets. As if they felt in the long run that they would be worth more than their euros, their dollars or their yen.
2. What are they used for?
Monopoly banknotes are used if your usual currencies are less reliable. Several rational cases can arise:
- your currency is a victim of hyperinflation - as in Venezuela or Zimbabwe - or will be - in the highly indebted developed countries - and you prefer bitcoins protected from inflation by their limited number;
- you are a criminal and want to launder illegal money - you use your illegal money to buy bitcoins on an anonymous and untraceable account;
- you want to anonymously take your money out of your country;
- you buy bitcoins hoping to sell them at a higher price: it's speculation, practiced by the 170 funds specializing in bitcoin - they were only 55 in August;
- you want to use bitcoins to buy goods and services: this practice is on the way out due to speculation which turns into precious material what should be a bargaining chip. While many alternative sites allow you to pay in bitcoins, only 3 of the top 500 online shopping sites in the world accept them, according to Morgan Stanley, compared to 5 in 2016.
- you think bitcoin is a technological revolution that will have so many applications in the future that it is worth its current price.
3. Monopoly tickets, but secure
Mankind began with barter. Then, to facilitate trade, we used gold. This way was safe, the precious metal had intrinsic value and could still be melted. Then we moved on to banknotes, which only have value because everyone recognizes them as currency; then to computer writing games: the euros that come and go on your bank accounts only become reality because everyone recognizes them and the banks organize their accounts. This money is dependent on States, on central banks and has value only because it is backed by an economy, the euro in Europe, the dollar in the United States.
The advent of bitcoin marks a further step: it is a computer code, inviolable and individualized. No need for a bank or central authority to guarantee its authenticity. These qualities mean that bitcoin is qualified as 2.0 gold.
Read also: The bitcoin revolution shakes the finance planet
4. Miners, these modern day notaries
Until now, the exchange of currency is guaranteed by a trusted third party, the bank: when you make a bank transfer to pay a supplier, its reality is certified by your bank and that of the supplier. Not so with e-currency: you exchange your bitcoin from hand to hand - or rather from computer to computer. But to be sure that there is no trick, the transaction is validated not by the bank but by some of the Monopoly players. The cryptocurrency world calls them miners, they play the role of notaries. These notaries have access to all the transactions that have taken place since the origins: there must be several of them to validate the exchange and register it in the large and unique computer file of bitcoins. But if this virtual currency is inviolable, the sites that hold it are hacked or stolen regularly: since its creation, a million bitcoins have been stolen.
5. Remuneration of notaries
Notaries (or minors), we know, do not do anything for free. To validate the transaction, which involves recalling the history of bitcoin exchanges, they are charged in Monopoly notes, in bitcoins. At the time of the creation of this currency, everyone could with their computer become a notary, validate transactions and receive their remuneration. Now, the calculations are so complex that it takes dozens of computers in series to perform them, which takes time, is very expensive equipment and energy.
Read also: The enticing promises of blockchain
6. The system is choking
To buy bitcoin, you need to register on a platform and create an electronic wallet. A transfer with his credit card and you're done! Except that the system is getting more and more complicated. The exchanges of bitcoins and the maintenance of order of the network by the notary-minors are every day more difficult. The transaction time exceeds ten minutes. There is no central exchange to trade bitcoins. Chicago launched an e-currency futures market in December, but it does not deal with it. It trades contracts in dollars, indexed to the price of the cryptocurrency.
7. How many bitcoins are there?
There are 16,7 million bitcoins in circulation, which makes, with a price of 17 dollars, a total valuation of approximately 000 billion dollars (280 billion euros). Ultimately, there will be no more than 240 million bitcoins, but these can be subdivided to create a bargaining chip. A thousand people hold a third of bitcoins, a third of this virtual currency was exchanged in 21, but a good part is dormant, forgotten or lost in computers. If you misplace the electronic code in your bitcoin wallet, it is lost forever.
8. ICOs, to hell with stocks
The bitcoin madness has led companies to invent a new way to finance themselves. Instead of selling part of their capital, many start-ups have decided to sell bitcoins and cryptocurrencies to investors, as part of Initial Coin Offering (ICO), a nod to Initial Public Offerings (IPO) , traditional IPOs. These false actions generally give the right to use the current and future services of these start-ups. Amount collected in 2017: $ 4 billion compared to $ 225 million in 2016.
9. A bubble
In conclusion, 51 53 economists interviewed by the Wall Street Journal believe that it is a bubble, so Monopoly notes. But the invention is technologically brilliant

Learn more about http://www.lemonde.fr/economie/article/ ... a5kFgCB.99
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 13:03

If I was paid millions € per year, and to save "my skin" I have to break the newcomers, I could also find a lot of relevant arguments :D

Some analysts predict the bitcoin (the original) to 100 and even 500 000 $ in a few years ... there is still some margin :) the advantage that you can buy fractions of corners is indisputable on conventional shares that are not cleavable (except with specific banking products)

The gdax tool that I mentioned earlier allows a reactivity impossible on the classical actions (if the site is not obviously out of order) : Mrgreen:), even with online sites like boursorama. Only real traders can access this kind of tool.

Yes there are intermediaries; gdax does not take more than 0.25% of fees (when it does, ie about 1 order on 3 or 4 ... Not understood why it was free). Which mainstream French bank can claim to have such a low rate on conventional stocks? I did not check maiks I do not think it exists ... We understand that it bellow ...

The actual transactions in xcoins become possible and this for a while for bitcoins (especially in online services) ... of course the classic system tries to defend itself and prevent their spread (eg South Korea that comes from legislate against bitcoins)

I start dreaming there but it is possible that the oil is listed in bitcoin one day! That would break the American hegemony of the sacro saint dollar !! And that would not be a bad thing! There obviously the transition will not be smooth ...
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 13:26

Did67 wrote:I do not want to dig my brain for futilities (virtual).

I read this article published on the website of the newspaper Le Monde [in my eyes, Le Monde remains a newspaper doing journalistic work and in particular, flushing out the "fakes"]:


Sorry Didier but I noticed that Le Monde was doing more and more in solicitation and putaclic :) see their facebook account : Cheesy: That disappoints me on the part (of what was ???) one of the most prestigious French newspapers ...

I stopped reading the article you quote from this line (we know it's a bubble, it's even the title of this topic ... AND THEN? A real estate bubble is underway since 20 years in France ... there we can enjoy it cheerfully but not bitcoins? Go ... seriously ...): : Cheesy:

1. Monopoly tickets


I do not know any notes this mono moly that some are ready to buy 15 000 € ... not even 1 € by the way so this article is only based on the wind! Thanks goodbye ... to the next! It smells of manipulation!

Another example: yesterday a journalist from the world insulted all the UFO hunters of conspiracy theorists. 99.99% of UFOs are natural and explainable without any "plot" behind ... it's more journalism it's manipulation!

As far as the anti-bitcoin uprising is concerned, it makes sense ... We can find thousands of examples in the history of humanity of arguments against anti-innovation innovations, notably to save the privileges of the dominant minorities of the time !

So it's a good sign that they're scared, because it means:
a) the risk exists for them
b) and therefore that bitcoins are promising ...

DO YOU BELIEVE THAT BANQUIERS FILE YOUR INTERESTS ??? THEY DO NOT WANT YOU PROTECT, THEY WANT SE PROTECT. We can re-talk about the recent financial crises: who really hurt? Banks or little people?


Funny, no banker or journalist from "big" newspapers talks about the advantages of corners ... In particular the transparency of the blockchain, oh yes we know that bankers do not like transparency ... yet journalists do.

What is Elise Lucet doing ???

ps: most economists do not already understand the crises of the classic financial system, if they understood they could prevent them no? So how do you want them to understand the blockchain ?? They are completely overwhelmed, like everyone else ... : Cheesy:
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 14:30

Christophe wrote:Another example: yesterday a journalist from the world insulted all the UFO hunters of conspiracy theorists. 99.99% of UFOs are natural and explainable without any "plot" behind ... it's more journalism it's manipulation!


Here is the famous post in question:



In addition to the substance of the subject, excuse me, but it is obvious that all the air force are investigating the UFO since the invention of the radar (and even before ...) ... me. ..
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Did67 » 19/12/17, 14:45

Christophe wrote:
it's more journalism it's manipulation!



I regret that you are making arguments that have a melenchonian finesse! Inevitably, when one is upset, it is because it is a manipulation ...

[Quite frankly, I do not care.

In principle, I would never put a cent in a bitcoin because making money by speculating is for me the supreme form of the capital scam. Getting rich by doing nothing, one of two things: either it collapses, once you want to convert into "real values" - into goods and services, to put it bluntly - either lambdas pay for you. One is a collapsing pyramid. The other is the neo-trader who drives a Porsche after having "skimmed" savers, got rid of their savings. I don't want the first one and the second makes me throw up.

Oh, I forgot, stay Santa Claus!

To know you, I wish you many chances - even if I fear the worst if you bet a part of your savings]
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Re: Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, what's a financial bubble? Explanations in 5 minutes chrono!




by Christophe » 19/12/17, 15:19

Ah I went from red anti-capitalist to Melenchonian ... yet I highly recommend speculation !!! I have never heard a Communist or a Melanchonian advise speculation !! So sorry I have trouble following these classifications ...

Ah is it because I advise to decrease your assets in conventional banks? And to go out, at least in part, from the banking system?

So yes I am red coconut!

What is the risk for the average French to put a few hundred € in the bictoins? No ... except to change the world! The total savings of the French amount to hundreds or even thousands of billions (not verified) ...

Who benefits? Not the French (pay back 1% it is lower than inflation ... me!) !!

So we leave the power to become anti-democratic banks that rob us more and more ????? Banks that are solely responsible for the current crises (and the actual deaths: how many suicides since 2009?) ?? Banks where the governments inject, without any democratic consultation, billions ... your, our billions?

When they win they give you nothing, when they lose you owe them everything! And that does not shock anyone?

We can speak, too, of the hold up of the public debts ... Grosso modo 100% of the tax on the income of the French share in the repayment of the interest of the debt, most of which are owned by banks or similar (not necessarily French but banks anyway ... it does not matter, bitcoins are global) ...

In Iceland, the people put bankers in Prison and erased its public debt! (if we talk so little here, it's not for nothing ...)

In this case, yes I'm Melenchonian !!

Free to leave 1% savings per year or to leave this rotten system gradually and partially and potentially earn 20% per day...

Again: do not bet a part of your savings, the one you are about to risk ... We talk about it (in one sense or the other I can plant but you too) in a few months .. .In any case it is positive because it gives less power to our executioners! That's why bitcoins are a huge chance for the evolution of humanity! It's historic what is happening! It's up to you to see if you want to contribute to change or not ...

What more can I say to try to convince you of the shit of the current system ?? And again I rely only on the louse of the tip of the iceberg that I know ... : Cheesy: : Cheesy: : Cheesy:

ps: it's not because we do not agree on this subject that it will change anything to the respect and friendship that I bring to you ... of course ...
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