Laser level: How to leveling w / crossed line laser level?

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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 12/04/12, 11:43

In one turn, it moves up around 1cm and with a iron bar of 60cm inside the handle, pushing hard with hands on this bar with a strength around 30Kg moving on a circle of diameter around 1m, this strength of 30Kg with hands, move of Pix1m = 3,14m for moving up of 1cm, so the level ratio is around 3,14m / 1cm = 314!
THUS up the strength can be of 30Kgx314 = 9,42tons
if there is no strong friction inside the screw, qui est with prebented grease could before the screw inside of theses props .
So it is sure that you move several tons with this inexpensive method, that I have used in the past, !!
The maximum weight it is Typically theses prop 2 officiellement tones.

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by dedeleco » 12/04/12, 13:17

With the help of a cheap truck jack 12tons, And Many props, you can move up all the house.

Image

Be very careful to know the order of magnitude of the weight of the house and to move all the pilars up together slowly !!
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by dedeleco » 13/04/12, 02:00

two relay antennas Was Erected by mobile phones operator (or / and Radio-TV), purpose They Seemed to be not Impacted by the flood (goal we-have to checking this out again).

Very Likely They could pilars Good underground at tne right depth sous le antenas, qui are less heavy Likely.

It APPEAR on this draw, That Some Part is missing to Represent a perfect parallelepiped. That to tell me, selon the kind of the land, we-have here the causes of the imbalance. Reason why the house is prone to be unstable,

Likely more, for Any shape, the underground is not homogeneous, and this is Sufficient to moving down more on Some side of the house.

It is like the Pisa tower in Italia !!

Another reason is maybe Some exceptionnal flood for about one month and a half (in the last november). Or maybe not, Because It's the normal state for this land!


Very Likely, it is the normal requirement for a rich rice-land, with flooding for rice !!

At what depth are the shoes or foundations under the 14 pilars and what-have length under the pines theses shoes.

If less than 2 meters, it is not surprising, foundations must be made by searching the good strong ground very long gold pine has serious after-geological study of the ground.
What is the real weight is pilar Each ??
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Obamot
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by Obamot » 13/04/12, 04:01

Yes, I read what you wrote Carefully, aussi the last page, and I'm AGREE with you about the pilars. I think, by evidence, They Are too pine shorts. Goal we-have to wait a tad to go Conclude something right now. Because of the lacking of Some parameters.

R&J (the owners of the house) will also read your previous post about the props with interest. It's something like that, what I was suggested to them (third step), on the previous page (point fourth):
https://www.econologie.com/forums/post230180.html#230180

Not exactly your idea goal of props, make sense ...

Ok, here we are: go to find parameters, and determine, what are the possible causes? As we know (some items from you):
1) assymetric design for Such a 'Floating house'.
2) year asymmetrical transmission of the weight to the land qui Brings. down the house by the side Heavier.
3) some areas of the land are more soft and light than others, qui Attract the house down side.
4) and of course, a wrong calculation of the structure by the engineer (undersized foundation).
5) OR - As You Noticed - resistance of the mud with insides batteries has-been overestimated.
6) That disturbance has cam by the flood and only by this cause.
7) some movements of the underground water mass, Because Of icts own caracteristic (affected by the water table and not Directly by the flood).
8} the house is "naturally" prone to go deep (because of the undersized foundation, but not according to other cause / s).
9) a combination of different Above points.

So, from this night, I know que la house begin to go down side BEFORE the flood. So, We Both AGREE Many of These points and the fact That Is "The normal requirement for a rich rice-land, with flooding for rice"

About your proposal, a "test load" will be essential for knowing the distance between the house and the stable ground. (if it exists ...)

In the other hand, to know if we can put a counterweight (or something, and if the foundation to the opposite side are well builded), we must Need to Know Some points:
- if the foundation beams and the structure can resist to this treatment.
- if so, what weight can we add so instead, Without Any risk to the structure.
- subsidiarily, Adding more foundation is feasible (thanks to the girder system) purpose it will still determine the exact size.

Because, since we que la Known ground is soft, the problem for your two suggestions Above is: there is no "bearing point" directly available right now. If so, we must therefore create it from A to Z, enlarging foundation or something: and That-have a cost!

By the Same Way of you, the contractor suggest to use hydrolic year leveling system. Purpose again, That Would not solve the causes of the problem.

Moreover, I will remember you That There is no budget for build Such a bearing. And bearing this need to be strong, Because The concern leverage much more than the weight of the building! Purpose if we admitted this as the only solution available: the addition / multipication of force (inertial moment or whatever), Regarding to the transfer of loads: using hydrolic, lift up Some Part of the house OR Add Some weight to the opposite side, Would Producing Sami efforts to the structure.

Aim first of all, we-have to determine what is the right leveling. That will give better information about the causes ....
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dedeleco
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by dedeleco » 13/04/12, 13:08

I agree.
First, it is Necessary to estimate the weight of the house and Its pilars, all concrete, or quite a lot of wood ???

Second what are the anf number of pits under the shoes ??

third, what is the strenght of the ground as a function of the depth?

It is feasible to evaluate-by pushing a very simple long iron bar with a single heavy hand hammer up to the maximum depth in order to know the depth of the pine Necessary !!!

When the ground is soft, it is absolutely Necessary to push Many Strong gold pilars pines inside the ground so That It never can move by reaching the hard ground or if not possible, by friction was very long area inside the ground.

This is classical In Particular for very tall buildings.
I remember it was video was very tall buiding in Shanghai was very soft mud !!!

In this case, of a simple house, it is feasible to cheap remain, by pushing very long thin gold bars tubes very deep inside the ground (10m or more) with hand hammers n That, the number of theses pines times the strength of resistance Measured for Each pine, is equal to the weight of the house on the pilar. Even by hand hammer, it is feasible to reach a resistance entre 0,1 and 1 tone For Each pin single tube if Sufficiently long gold.
With it is feasible to push cement pipes inside to the depth of the ground, With Some air pressure.
This can be made cheaply by hand .because the ground is free of access around Each pilar.

After, on this strong base Each pilar around, it is easy to move up the house, with only the hands and cheap props and one jack.
I have made Such moving up in the past was heavy wall.

If nothing is made, all the house, will move down Surely Without Any cracks and end slowly Many Times and be destroyed.

It is absolutely Necessary to stop this movement.
It begans dry before the flood, Proof That It Will Be endless !!!

For short times, When the ground is dry, it is feasible to put very large area of ​​metallic iron thick flat on the ground and with Many props are theses platforms to push up the house or at least stops the movement down inside the ground, the flat moving down inside the ground at the site of the house, compensated by turning up the props screww of the contents, each weekend !!.

It is the minimum to make at short time, before pushing down many pins, or pilars deep inside the ground, which, otherwise, will "eat" all the pilars of the house endless, betwwen wet and dry seasons !!!
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by Obamot » 13/04/12, 21:06

dedeleco wrote:I agree.
First, it is Necessary to estimate the weight of the house and Its pilars, all concrete, or quite a lot of wood ???

No wood at all (what you saw is left traces on the molding of the concrete by the wood.)

(1) We already-have an estimate of the weight: Reported have already, is 8T per pillar for a total of 112T Including the roof. That to tell me it will be not less than 45 m3 of concrete (new calculation goal is urgently required, Because of this problem, for sure)

dedeleco wrote:Second what are the depth anf number of pits under the shoes?

(2) I agree too. They do not know exactly, anyway, we can not change that. So we need to do with it. Goal problem we need to care about that point as a parameter of the problem.

dedeleco wrote:what is the strenght of the ground as function of the depth?

(3) Same thing, They Do not Know exactly, we can not change that. By the way this parameter changes all the time: sometime it's about 80cm to 1m of water under the house (coming from the farmers Because of rice plants) sometime more about rainy season, purpose Generally They add water willingly, taken from the river for fishing (and of course doing fish!). Because Primarily, bathing inside the water is the goal of this house:

Image

As you can see on the picture Above, the level of the water here is extremely low ... The maximum level can be in the middle of the pillars. And what you see around the pillar, is the footings of the foundations, Supposed to be steady and strong ground ...

Again we need to care about that point as a parameter of the problem.

dedeleco wrote:It is feasible to evaluate-by pushing a very simple long iron bar with a single heavy hand hammer up to the maximum depth in order to know The Necessary depth of the pines!

When the ground is soft, it is absolutely Necessary to push Many Strong gold pilars pines inside the ground so That It never can move by reaching the hard ground or if not possible, by friction was very long area inside the ground.

This is classical In Particular for very tall buildings.

Yes, it's NOT a goal high building, purpose flat year assymetrical design.

So, Could I suggest to "Minimalist step by step" way to do? And using the material available on site, because of an ecologic concern (water ... land ... rice ... because rice can drink A LOT of water to growing up => and give a temporary answer to this question ... if not for ever ...!)

I repeat, maybe it's to early to Conclude. Because if the house tended to go only one side, as you can see here:

Image

Eventually ... it's only Because of it's assymetrical design !? If you follow the red line on the picture. Maybe we-have the opportunity to right que le level Was never moving (and only move to the left). If yes, we only need to fix the problem to the left (Beginning to the right by Adding Some props and em temporary footings), and at the Sami time 1) stopping the progression to the left, with one or two props, attached to the ends of concrete beams, and Who takes His seat on the footings of the lobby and / or temporary footings 2) Add Some pillar too (between the Existing jogging), purpose more than to the right (after the new assessment of the weight of the house if so ...).

By the way, the answer is add footings and pillars everywhere entre Existing foundation.

dedeleco wrote:In this case, of a simple house, it is feasible to cheap remain, by pushing very long thin gold bars tubes very deep inside the ground (10m or more) with hand hammers n That, the number of theses pines times the strength of resistance Measured for Each pine, is equal to the weight of the house on the pilar. Even by hand hammer, it is feasible to reach a resistance entre 0,1 and 1 tone For Each pin single tube if Sufficiently long gold.
With it is feasible to push cement pipes inside to the depth of the ground, With Some air pressure.
This can be made cheaply by hand .because the ground is free of access around Each pilar.

Not a bad idea at all. As you understand this point, I change your mind about priority and I change my idea about priority. Now, I would suggest:
- temporary props were jogging, for stopping the descent (at the lowest side)
- at the Saami time, as I already suggest, is conducive area to use the footings of the lobby / corridor to put two others props (in the south-east from goal Sami side) to expect la même effect, as you can see on the photomontage Above (see the magenta arrows).

(But yes it's not suffiscient, in the south-west side, reason why I suggest temporary footings.)

So it's oven pops, for a total of 8T 12T gold as a minimum (32T as a maximum)

Then If That Give Good results: it's Necessary to put final small columns and extend the jogging as soon as possible, with reinforced concrete.

Conclusion: If other dosen't work solutions. So yes, we can add more pillars (thanks to the grider system).

dedeleco wrote:After, on this strong base Each pilar around, it is easy to move up the house, with only the hands and cheap props and one jack.
I have made Such moving up in the past was heavy wall.

If nothing is made, all the house, will move down Surely Without Any cracks and end slowly Many Times and be destroyed.

It is absolutely Necessary to stop this movement.
It begans dry before the flood, Proof That It Will Be endless!

Yes, exactly! Purpose Adding other pillar tell me it's better than doing something with the wrong ones? (Who They Can stay "as they are".)

dedeleco wrote:For short times, When the ground is dry, it is feasible to put very large area of ​​metallic iron thick flat on the ground and with Many props are theses platforms to push up the house or at least stops the movement down inside the ground, the flat moving down inside the ground at the site of the house, compensated by turning up the props screww of the contents, each week!

Well, I'm not on site right now, and people over there arent engineer technician at all ... It's a delicate mission! And finding the required material is not like in France or Switzerland, not easy at all.

dedeleco wrote:It is the minimum to make at short time, before pushing down many pins, or pilars deep inside the ground, which, otherwise, will "eat" all the pilars of the house endless, between wet and dry seasons!

Yes, it's risky. They-have to do something as soon as possible. For safe.

Aim before again, a diagnosis need to be done, to check the leveling. That make sense to find the real causes aussi .... And to have some control and referenced items to compare future hypothetic exchange of level.
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by Obamot » 16/04/12, 00:32

Here's scheme, That show why the center of gravity Would move in a non-uniform fields.

Especially When the design is asymmetric.

Image

When a "missing mass" (down the left in pink) would change the presumed barycenter! : Lol:
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by Obamot » 16/04/12, 00:44

At this point and before the leveling step:

- here a brief synthesis according to what is known - or not - of the situation.

Known (In twenty points)
1) The house was built from about 1,5 year ago.
2) The house Began to sink slowly into the ground, and a flood Seems To accelerate this be (or not much, That We-have to check first).
3) The house is a tad inclined (tested with a metallic ball and APPEAR in photographs).
4) The inclination is about 0,5 ° if I'm not wrong (Go down 10cm for a distance of about 1300cm of length).
5) The house Regularly continues to sink, slowly But Surely in one side (if not all the house?).
6) The pillars and footings can resist theorically to a weight of about 8T each (gold is Calculated to resist to 78,45 kN each).
7) Calculated The barycenter (according to the foundations) is off center OR / AND the ground is not homogenous.
8} The calculations of the engineer Was Not Sufficient. And do not take account of all parameters.
9) The design of the house is not a quadrilateral, and this imbalance is Surely a share of the problem.
10) There is no slab, but a girder system. And this can help to solve the problem by different ways. For example by adding more footings, columns (or props, like here: see the red arrows ...>) Close enough to Existing column, under the beams (near the goal support for exclude an overload. And the summit of column can be reinforced and 'wider than the body, like here ...>)
11) Founded on the previous item, some temporary measures to fix the problem May be taken Quickly, without risk to the structure. Thanks to the elasticity of the land.
12) If nothing is done, it is possible to que la continuous house to sink up to touching the ground.
13 As reported, the repairs should be taken from a land often waterlogged.
14) An hydraulic system is not a good idea, Because this method do not solves the causes of the problem. By the way, there is no guarantee que la house Will Remain Stable ounce adjusted ... And we can do la même by using gravity.
15) At Some Point, we can aussi please use counterweights, if moderate (not more than maximum que la regular load, added of exceptionnal load ratio) and if everything is ready to enlarge jogging first.
16) Antennas of mobile phone operators Some behind the house Seems To not be affected (That goal points need to be checked).
17) Sooner or later, walls and pillars need to be tested: to determine resistance and prevent prevention Their collapse has (all of the house)! Because if an engineer forgot something like this, it can forgot more.
18} No budget for repair (or few). That to tell me choosing precast reinforced concrete footings and preps Seems to be the way to go? (And of course, find a solution selon the Existing structure.)
19) If 'wider temporary footings dosen't fix the problem: for final solution require finding the strong ground or choosing long pine has serious after-geological study of the ground OR HAVING Proof That the' wider footings are Sufficient to Support the house on this kind of soil.
20) It's Necessary to (re) calculate the actual volume of concrete - Adding to the weight of the roof - to determine the real weight of this house and the size of 'wider footings and new columns.

Unknown (In one point)
Everything what we Explained previous posts! By the way, how can I list something I do not know? : Mrgreen:
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by Obamot » 16/04/12, 13:59

At this point, the facts tell us to That We probably-have a combination of two reasonable hypothesis. The first one Could confirmed the second (or not if the work to stop the sinking in the down side, Would give the expected result).

First reason: size of footings are in one side Underestimated
The house Had a wrong calculation of foundations jogging Because of:
- an assymetrical design concept.
- so the "missing mass", would displaced the presumed location of the barycenter (that is probably - but surely - the first big mistake of the engineer).
- Then The house is in a state of imbalance. Would and down Because The land is soft and for to accomplish achieve the balance Point With His real barycenter!
But we don't know if it's the only cause right now. We must stop the sinking one side, for to know if it's "true or false".
That to tell us: we must take temporary actions to stop the sinking in the side Concerned to validate this hypothesis.
- If it's true, the house Could stop in this position OR / AND interacting to Correct His position, thanks to the new distribution of the weight, and Could leveling himself horizontaly by the help of terrestrial gravity (or not aim We Can obtenir the status quo. By the way we Can Add Some counterweight and so on ...).
But I think, this is true hypthesis, Because Many items already confirmed it:
a) the sinking is exactly in the side concernant by this hypothesis.
b) by visualization of the map, we can see également, que le maximum weight of the house, going to Appear in the Sami side.
c) by testimony, it APPEAR que le size of the footings are la même everywhere, When They shoulds be of different sizes, since que la distribution of the load of the building is not the Sami everywhere ...
d) the distribution of the footings, by numbers and positions em, going to the Saami conclusions.
e) aussi the tilt axis of 0.5 °, going Lightest Directly from the hand of the building to the heaviest part ...
f) It Would be an incredibly bad coincidence, That with a weight of about 112 tones, the building going exactly sinking Where It looks to go (Because Of icts COG), by pure coincidence of vagaries of an unstable ground ... (Not to say que la odds are very low, Because of the basic laws of physics, Recalled by Dedeleco).
Goal we-have to check it. And we will do it with help ....!

Second complementary cause: Resistance of the land Was overestimated
With the combination of the first one (wrong estimation / calculation of the centroid location), this second hypothesis is the worst (if so ...). Because (if true) it Adding to the problem of sinking assymetrical, Because It's the proof que la pine foundations and footings, arent Sufficiently wide and long to supporting the full weight of the house. And this, by jogging jogging.

That to tell us: the resistance of the land - Often waterlogged, and pillars inside ... - has-been overestimated. And whatever we do for stopping (by enlarging jogging), the house will continue to sinking by His Own weight, up to jogging touch the real ground (but we do not know When this can happend, if it's more than two metters, and at the actual speed of sinking, the beams can touch the land in 15 years or less ...).

This hypothesis are already true for a small part, Goal we do not really know how huge the problem is, Because of lacking of information.

Because of the urgency, the owners of this house, must do something to fix the problem. Without providing good more damage to the structure: aussi and to prevent prevention and limit the actual damages (that APPEAR already by very small cracks) and stopping the progression in a near future.

Purpose if we do by empirism without budget, we must confirm all thesis hypothesis. By the Action (to stop sinking), and noticing what is the interaction. With a true precision!

The leveling of the house will confirm (or not) some hypothesis.
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by Obamot » 16/04/12, 15:06

According To The Above (and if true).

Here is a suggestion of a minimalist solution:

Image

After we can discussing if a counter-effect could appear or not !? Theorically yes, according to the calculation of the "moment"of inertia (an evaluation between 25 and 50 kN?). But we really don't know actually, and it can takes time (to interact)! But that is not really a problem imho ... : Cheesy:

So, now is the time to do the leveling ... : Lol:


Important NB: here, the cutaway is an "egyptian representation". To be true, all the extra footings & columns would appear in the respective perpendicular sections. This is only to show the principle of this strategy.
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